Our process;year one - Please critque

[NJwinemaker]

Hello all.

My family and I made our own wine last year. I wanted to write the process we did and see what everyone thinks; ie anything wrong with it. The reason I want feedback is because we had a few issues:

1. Out of 7 carboys - 2 have a terrible sulfur smell (both petite Syrah)
2. The wine was bottled in Dec 2011- it is very light bodied. Will this improve over time?

I would say we took an old school approach.

• Purchased the grapes from a local store
• Crushed the grapes in a old school wooden crank crusher
• Let sit in Rubbermaid tubs for 2 weeks (punching the cap every day)
• Once the cap stopped rising - we pressed the wine into glass carboys
• Over the next year, we racked the wine a few times to remove all the sediment build up.
• We then bottled the wine

We sanitized all bottles, carboys, and materials with Potassium metabisulfite. We did not use any hydrometers or anything to test any levels of anything. Is this needed to determine when fermentation is finished? I feel like our lack on testing may be the reason for a few issues.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[robie]

What all varieties of grapes did you use besides Petite Syrah?
Did you add any yeast or did you go with just indigenous yeast?
After fermentation ended, did you stabilize the wine with sulfites (Kmeta)?
Did you top off the carboys to remove all but a small air space in the neck of each carboy?
While the wine was in the carboys, how often did you add addition sulfites (Kmeta)?
Did you place air locks on each carboy?

Yes, a hydrometer is very important.

 

[NJwinemaker]

Hi Robie. Thank you for the reply. Please see my replies below.

1. Carnelian, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet/Merlot Blend, Sangiovese, Petite Syrah
2. We added yeast after we crushed. It was added to the crushed grapes as they fermented in the Rubbermaid tubs.
3. We did not stabilize with kmeta.
4. The carboys were always topped off to appropriate level.
5. We did not add kmeta ever.
6. Each carboy had a fermentation lock with a Potassium metabisulfite solution in it at all times.
7. I will buy a hydrometer.

Out of the 7 carboys we had, the two petite syrahs are the only two that smelled foul. The process was the same for all.

Also - the questions you posed, were they aimed to address our issue with the sulfur smell or the light bodied wine?

Thanks again.

 

[ckassotis]

If you pressed your wine and then aged it with multiple rackings over a year without any sulfites, I think you may have oxidized it. The sulfur smell is quite normally confused with the oxidation smell. You wouldn't have a sulfite sulfur smell if you didn't add it, so I think it would have to be the oxidation. Not sure that there is anything you can do for that, but others will likely know more on the subject and may have differing views.

 

[robie]

Hi Robie. Thank you for the reply. Please see my replies below.

1. Carnelian, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet/Merlot Blend, Sangiovese, Petite Syrah
2. We added yeast after we crushed. It was added to the crushed grapes as they fermented in the Rubbermaid tubs.
3. We did not stabilize with kmeta.
4. The carboys were always topped off to appropriate level.
5. We did not add kmeta ever.
6. Each carboy had a fermentation lock with a Potassium metabisulfite solution in it at all times.
7. I will buy a hydrometer.

Out of the 7 carboys we had, the two petite syrahs are the only two that smelled foul. The process was the same for all.

Also - the questions you posed, were they aimed to address our issue with the sulfur smell or the light bodied wine?

Thanks again.

Thanks for the reply.

I was actually addressing both issues; it helps to get a better understanding of the over all situation.

Some wine makers like to use indigenous yeast right out of the air, so I was just wondering what you did.

Unless you are trying to make a "no sulfites added" wine, you really do need to get the free sulfite levels up to a safe level. Without it, your wine could easily begin to spoil early. Trying to avoid using sulfites in a home wine making environment is very difficult and not usually successful.

Have you already bottled the wine?

Maybe your Petite Syrah grapes were just not quite as healthy as the rest, so the lack of sulfites has allowed it to grow some smelly bacteria. Grapes all age differently and come in under different circumstances.

When did the Petite Syrah start having the off smell - right after fermentation or much later? Is the smell a rotten egg (sulfur) smell or something else?

The Hydrometer will help next time by letting you know when fermentation is over. That way you will know exactly when to press.

Keep giving us info and hopefully we can help.

 

[mmadmikes1]

The other possablity and more likely is the wild yeast in the Petite Syrah is a strain the can have sulfur problem under less than ideal connditions. If it was what you are all suggesting then all the wine would have had some problem not just the PT.. BTW wine was made successfully for thousands of years with out adding K Meta. I do not use sulfites in most meads and have experimented with using CO2 to control oxidation. The test was successful butt I am to lazy to check co2 levels every other day so I stopped doing it. But I did it and it was not that hard if a person wants to. They just need to be cleaner than normal and avoid airspaces after fermentation is complete. small amount will not be a big problem

 

[NJwinemaker]

Thanks for the reply.

I was actually addressing both issues; it helps to get a better understanding of the over all situation.

Some wine makers like to use indigenous yeast right out of the air, so I was just wondering what you did.

Unless you are trying to make a "no sulfites added" wine, you really do need to get the free sulfite levels up to a safe level. Without it, your wine could easily begin to spoil early. Trying to avoid using sulfites in a home wine making environment is very difficult and not usually successful.

Have you already bottled the wine?

Maybe your Petite Syrah grapes were just not quite as healthy as the rest, so the lack of sulfites has allowed it to grow some smelly bacteria. Grapes all age differently and come in under different circumstances.

When did the Petite Syrah start having the off smell - right after fermentation or much later? Is the smell a rotten egg (sulfur) smell or something else?

The Hydrometer will help next time by letting you know when fermentation is over. That way you will know exactly when to press.

Keep giving us info and hopefully we can help.

We already bottled everything aside from the Petite Syrah. About 3 months ago, we splash racked the wine over a copper pole (a recommendation from a fellow winemaker) to try to get rid of this smell.

The smell is a rotten egg smell.

We will be purchasing a hydrometer for this years batch. I also would like to purchase a device to test the alcohol content.

 

[NJwinemaker]

@mmadmikes1

I was thinking the same thing that all the wine should have this problem if it was all treated the same way. Im hoping that is the case. When racking the wine, we used a siphon to remove the wine from one to another. The experienced wine maker in our group (he has done it once before) said we have to rack multiple times until the sediment is all removed. Is this the case?

Thanks again.

 

[Rocky]

I agree with Mike that it could have been related to the wild yeast on the PS or perhaps it could be from something (i.e. a sulfur-containing compound) that the grower sprayed on the grapes to prevent disease or pests. There are many theories and beliefs on what causes this odor and a lot of research is being done on it to better understand the source of the problem, the prevention and the remedy.

Treating the wine with a CuSO4 solution could help but you really have to know what you are doing and how much to add to the wine. It is safe in controlled quantity but can be lethal in too high an amount. You might try something as simple as aerating a bottle repeatedly to see if the H2S dissapates. If you don't have an aerator, pour a 750 ml bottle into a 1500 ml bottle and shake it vigorously a number of times to see if the odor is reduced. Another trick I have used is to hang a copper wire in the wine for a few hours and have the sulfur combine with the coper. (I strip the ground wire out of Romex 3-wire cable.)

Where are you located? We have several excellent sources (members of the forum) in the New Jersey area who might be able to help. I suggest that you PM "joeswine" and get his opinion on this. Whatever you do, do it first on a small scale (one or two bottles) before applying it to the whole batch. Lastly, although it is true as Mike says that wine was made for centuries without K-meta, it was also stored in controlled temperature conditions (cellars or caves) and much of it spoiled.

There is an old Italian saying, "Se ha una Lupara, spara!" (If you have a gun, shoot it!) meaning, in this case, if K-meta is available, use it!

 

[Rocky]

NJwinemaker, Sorry, I missed that you have not bottled the PS. That is even better. Try hanging several lengths of copper wire in the carboy for a few days and see if that helps. If it is, in fact, H2S, the Sulfur should combine with the copper and the Hydrogen should go to atmosphere. Keep the carboy topped off as high as possible to limit exposure to air.

 

[joeswine]

Welcome

Were are you located at in ,,,nj

 

[joeswine]

Welcome

Were are you located at in ,,,nj

 

[NJwinemaker]

@Joeswine- I am located in Atlantic Highlands.

@Rocky - I will try the copper wire method. Any suggestions on how to keep the carboy airtight with the copper wire in it?

 

[Rocky]

NJW, there are two ways I have used. Cut the wire to a length that reaches the bottom of the carboy and is still accessible from the neck or stab the wires into a solid rubber stopper and attach the stopper.

 

[UBB]

if you had to could you also not run the end of the wire up into the bottom end of the air lock if needed?

 

[JohnT]

NJ Winemaker,

I am located in Chester, NJ. are you anywhere close to that?

One point that has not been brought up is that you do not mention the use of a yeast neutriant. A major cause of sulfur related problems is what has been termed as "Yeast Breakdown". This is the tendency of yeast to devour other yeast cells when neutriants are scarce in the must.

Also, a lot can be controlled by the type of yeast you select. Some yeasts are more prone to yeast breakdown then others.

As far as body, a lot of that can be controlled through punchdowns (pushing the "raft of skins back down into the wine) and the amount of time that you have the wine sitting on the skins (or maceration). If you want more color and body, let the wine sit on the skins longer.

Did you get your grapes at Corrado's?

 

[mustangzrule]

Copper is a trace element in the diet and like any metal has a limit before becoming toxic. I cringe at the thought of adding a soluble copper salt to something people consume. Even Iron is toxic in levels too high.

You could try using SO2 to drive off H2S. While I usually produce no sulfite added wines, by adding a dosing of campden to the batch (returning the contents of all of your bottles to a carbouy). It may seem counter-intuitive to add sulfur to remove the solfur, but the concept is to drive off the offending gas leaving behind another gas in it's place.

 

[Vinovintner]

You missed a couple of very important steps in the winemaking process. Step 1- You should always add a little potassium metabisulphite (20 ppm). This is a very low level of sulphite and will disapate rapidly. The reason for using the sulphite is to kill wild yeast and other microorganisims that may be present on the grapes. It gives your grapes a "clean slate" to work with when you add a commercial yeast product.

Step 2 involves taking readings for your sugar content, Tartaric Acid, and PH. It is very important to get those numbers in order before you begin fermentation, it really impacts the quality of your wine. I like to rehydrate my yeast in a product called GoFerm. GoFerm is a derivative product produced from yeast ghosts with added nutrients and minerals. This helps your yeast to get off to a great start and feeds it with the required nutrients to take off quickly, often called lag time.

Step 3 involves adding proper nutrients to keep your yeast healthy and active during the primary fermentation. Once the yeast has become complety active, it needs nitrogen and other enegizers to keep it healthy. A good source would be Fermaid K. This proprietary product contains DAP,( Diammonium Phosphate) and other proprietary nutrients essential for good yeast development. Fermaid K is generally added in two phases. The first application is recommended at approximately 8 - 12 hours after the yeast has begun to take off. The second application would be when the fermentation is at 1/3 sugar depletion.

The rotten egg smell that you experienced is called hydrogen sulphite. The number one reason for the production of hydrogen sulphite is a lack of proper nutrient additions to keep your yeast happy while they are doing their job of converting the sugar present in the grapes to alcohol.

It is very important to rack your wines on a regular basis, every three months, to get rid of the dead yeast cells that have dropped to the bottom of your carboy.