Oaking

[hannabarn]

At what point is it too late to add oak? I made red wine with Old Orchard grape concentrate, hoping it would turn out like chianti. It needs oak! It is still on the lees but has cleared with super kleer. Is it safe to add oak and let it sit for a few weeks?

 

[WineNewbie]

I'm sure others will chime in, but I think you are still OK to oak at this point, but you should rack off of the lees 1stsince you've already used Superkleer. I've heard that if you leave it on clarifier lees too long, it can impart off flavors.

 

[WineNewbie]

While we're on the Oaking subject, I also had a question. Can you toast your own oak? I don't have a LHBS convenient, and hate to put an order in for just oak.


I have plenty of Oak stacked outside for my firplace, although I have no idea what variety of oak. Can I chip a log up and toast it in the oven or something....Or am I way off my rocker on this one?

 

[hannabarn]

That is an interesting question as I, too, have lots of oak! Red oak, which would be a little strong in flavor!

 

[JimCook]

George just passes along the costs of shipping - why not just order some beans and be done with it. I tend to order my oak when I order a kit, but if I need more or change my mind, he's just a phone call away.


I'm not sure specifically how the wood is 'seasoned,' but Stavin seasons their oak for three years before preparation for use. I'm going to hazard a guess that George can get you setup much faster than that.


http://www.stavin.com/oak/intro.htm


On the subject of when to oak - it's really an 'up to the winemaker' kind of thing. There are wines that are fermented in stainless and then aged in oak. Others are fermented in oak and aged in more oak. I've used oaking products during and after fermentation, and if I'm going to add more oak flavors and mouthfeel using beans, why not have everything off the lees and clear and then toss in the beans to see how it progresses? It has worked very well for my wines to date.


- JimEdited by: JimCook

 

[joeswine]

as long as its still in process i don't see why you can't you may want to rack,then add and clarify,or you can add tannic power,and do the same,reclarify///jp

 

[grapeman]

I agree with the others on the addition of the oak. As for toasting, I have done it before. I use white oak - less harshness to it. Just DO NOT MICROWAVE. I tried it to see what would happen. Less than a minute and the house was filling with a plume of smoke. But it sure did smell good and toasted in the house for about a week.

 

[hannabarn]

I'm not planning on toasting my own oak. I have enough trouble making my own wine! I'm happy to learn that I can still oak this wine. I think it will make it more like a chianti. Thanks for the input!
Edited by: hannabarn

 

[Tomy]

If it were me I would get out the Boy Scout hatchet, chip up some white oak, throw it in the oven to toast, then in the wine. What can you hurt, were nottalking 50 year old $1,000 a bottle french cognac. Tomy

 

[hannabarn]

I'll tell you what it would hurt! ME, for trying to get into my wife's oven!!! OUCH!

 

[hannabarn]

It has only been on the lees with super kleer for a couple of days so I think it is safe to oak and leave it for a couple of weeks to compact. ???

 

[Wade E]

What kind of oak are you using and what wine is this. If using cubes I would wait till you are off the lees myself.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Hannabarn,
I've only been experimenting with oaking over the last 13 months so consider the source.


None of the kits I've seen to date suggest leaving the wineon lees with settling additives. That istypical of the advice I've seen on this forum as well. It seems the collective advice is get it off the clarifiers as soon as clearing happens.


Well, that isn't enough time to have oak extraction happen for beans or staves. And, I'm not sure that oaking thru primary as WE directions instruct is adequate. Mosti has oak extraction happen after fermentation has started but doesn't leave the the oak in very long either.So, overall, I think supplemental oaking may be desireable(except for Megliolis which I am doing as per direction for now).


For WE and a couple of MM All Juice, Ihave added staves or beams after clarificationfor 4 to8 weeks and it seems that some of those winesare coming very nicely. In the case ofWE kits oaked after clarification, the KT I taste has been diminished as well.


Now I have an experiment going with extended lees contact with a CC Super Tuscan and I have addedthe kit oak cubes to the wine at the same time I have lees contact. But, no clarifiers have been added yet and I'm not going to do that until I want the wine toclear andcan rack it off as soon as it clears.


I'll be interrested to see what others post on this topictoo.Edited by: Jack on Rainy

 

[Bert]

I would go with Wades recommendation...Get it off the lees first than oak....oaking may take 6 to 12 weeks, depends on your taste for oak.....12 weeks will be a long time on the lees....Good luck

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Bert,
You added this while I was checking my spelling. Your two lines says it better than my 12!

 

[hannabarn]

My plan is this: Since I just added the super kleer 2 days ago I'll leave on the lees to compact for about 10 days. Then rack it off the lees and add oak and bulk age it for awhile and taste periodically. If there is any left by the time it tastes right I will bottle it! This is a wine I made from grape concentrate so I can play with it to see if I can get it to taste like chianti. I think all it needs is oak! I don't have any oak but maybe I'll try toasting my own in my son's commercial smoker. Sound like a good plan??

 

[Bert]

Jack, We are all just trying to help and give some advice...2lines or 12 lines, I hope some find something they can use....I think the wanting to help is what makes this forum so great..

 

[Wade E]

Is this a white oak tree and free from any chemicals? Do not use red oak as it is not the same!!!!!!! If you are fond of this wine then I would split up the batch and say to get some good oak cubes or beans and do most of it that way and try 1 gallon of it with your oak.

 

[hannabarn]

Any oak that I have would be in 40 acres of woods and I know they are free of chemicals. Mostly red but a few white oak. I guess I am probably safest to get oak cubes or beans!

 

[PeterZ]

White oak is definately the way to go. Red is too harsh.


Toasting chips from a seasoned log that was split immediately before collecting the chips would probably work. If the split log has been sitting on the wood pile for a while, the surface might have developed some fungus. Toasting would probably kill it, but I don't know if the remnants would affect the flavor.


Sawn lumber is another matter. Sawmills often dip the rough sawn boards in chemicals to prevent sapstain fungus - especially if it will be more than a day or two wait for the kiln. One such chemical is 2-thiocyanomethylthiobenzothiazole, or TCMTB. This is very nasty stuff - a strong skin sensitizer. I used to work for the company that invented it. If the wood is burned the chemical is destroyed, but I am not aware of any testing of just toasting the wood.