No degassing needed...

[Matt723]

I just recently put down 7 more wine kits, each one was a kit I had done in the past and typically during the degassing stage it took quite a while to degas each kit. This time it was different, there was virtually no gas present in any of the kits. I did 2 things differently, first I used spring water front he store, second was I actually did a secondary fermentation.

My question is what do you think contributed to the wine being virtually gas free? Was it the secondary fermentation or do you think the water profile would have something to do with it?

All other factors were the same, hit the same SG and FG in all kits, temperature was regulated the same.

Thanks,
Matt

 

[jswordy]

Could be another factor in that it sounds like it sat around longer before bottling.

 

[jamesngalveston]

what was the secondary...mlf

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Interesting ? Temperature the same on all cases ?
CO2 is a normal byproduct of making alcohol -
How did long did it sit in the Carboy before you tested it or bottled it ?

 

[Thig]

what was the secondary...mlf

Yeah, what do you mean by secondary fermentation. That term "secondary" gets misused a lot in wine making. If you are talking about going from the primary to the carboy that is still the same fermentation.

 

[robie]

Yeah, what do you mean by secondary fermentation. That term "secondary" gets misused a lot in wine making. If you are talking about going from the primary to the carboy that is still the same fermentation.

In the kit wine making world going from alcoholic fermentation in the bucket to the carboy to finish alcoholic fermentation is called "secondary". You will see it referenced in many kit instructions.

Why they would coin that phrase, when in the commercial world it means mlf, I have never figured out.

Just know that in the world of kits, secondary means the slow phase of alcoholic fermentation.

 

[robie]

There is a science behind why the CO2 is there - The yeast produce alcohol and CO2 and the percentages of each is fairly constant for a given grape variety, sugar content, and yeast strain combo, of course, especially for a kit wine.

If in fact it is not there for you this time, it would have to have something to do with temperature and/or time. Either that or it is still there, but it hasn't turned loose, yet.

 

[jamesngalveston]

if in the primary, bucket,jug,ice chest,what ever its called the aerobic fermentation where most of the sugar is consumed. Usually with a cloth are something over it to keep bugs out, air in.
If you move it to another container of any kind that has an air lock it is called anaerobic fermentation where it will consume the remainder of the sugar. air lock lets co2 out, and no air in.....
and it will starve its self with no air.

 

[saramc]

if in the primary, bucket,jug,ice chest,what ever its called the aerobic fermentation where most of the sugar is consumed. Usually with a cloth are something over it to keep bugs out, air in.
If you move it to another container of any kind that has an air lock it is called anaerobic...

But, some kits recommend airlock from the get-go, and some people initiate ferment under airlock from the start too....So primary container is not synonymous with aerobic. Personally, I use words like 'primary/secondary container' and 'secondary ferment, ie MLF'...takes the guesswork out of it.

Matt...on the degassing issue...what length of time in primary before you transferred to your 2ndary carboy? What was SG at time of transfer? Did you do any serial racking, bulk aging? If so, how many rackings over what period of time & how long did you bulk age for? Temp during time in 2ndary carboy? All of that can factor in.

 

[jamesngalveston]

you guys have me confused now...
i have been letting it ferment completely in primary...sg same after 3 are 4 days. then racking to secondary to await settlement and racking again.

 

[robie]

you guys have me confused now...
i have been letting it ferment completely in primary...sg same after 3 are 4 days. then racking to secondary to await settlement and racking again.

That is not a problem as long as you seal the fermenter and add an air lock when the SG gets to about 1.020 to 1.010. The yeast and the wine do not need air at such low SG.

 

[Matt723]

More info...

Thanks for all the responses so far.

When I said secondary fermentation I should have simply said "secondary" as it is a continuation of the first fermentation on these kits. The kit instructions do specifically state secondary fermentation but that is not that case as a few of you had mentioned.

My controlled fermentation area is set at 23C, I keep my wines in that room for the duration of the fermentation, secondary, degas and filter stages until I move them for long term storage at 16C. In this case these are summer fruity wine kits (all around 9 or 10%) and there will be no long term storage, I'll bottle them next week.

I like to do things in bulk because I make a lot of kits for my friends and family so I'm not the only one drinking wine all the time. According to my records I put the kits down 21/05/2013 and they sat at 23C until 06/06/2013 which is 16 days. At that time they all tested out to .98 or .985. I transferred them to secondary and left them at 23C until 11/06/2013 which is another 5 days. Again my records indicate that after that time they all measured out to the same gravity as previously stated, therefore I went ahead with the degas and clearing steps. There was no gas present, I have never seen it before... I use a fizz-x to degas and typical have to be cautious of a volcano of gas... not this time. So all 7 kits are sitting clearing and I will be filtering and bottling them next week, of course I plan on a degas attempt before this just to be sure I don't get 210 bottle bombs, my wife wouldn't find that very funny.

 

[saramc]

you guys have me confused now...
i have been letting it ferment completely in primary...sg same after 3 are 4 days. then racking to secondary to await settlement and racking again.

I shift to anaerobic ferment when the OG has dropped by 2/3, typically within 5-8 days. The only exception is a slow going ferment, mead being most common culprit, and I transition to airlock on Day 10 if I am not yet at 2/3 sugar break.
I ferment aerobically for the first 2/3 due to life cycle of fermentation, what happens when; and I end with anaerobic for the same reason. In my early days I made two duplicate batches of raspberry wine using juice via steam extraction. One all aerobic, one aerobic/anaerobic & the aerobic/anaerobic was much more flavorful.

(Not meaning to deviate OP, but James' inquiry is a common point of debate)

 

[robie]

(Not meaning to deviate OP, but James' inquiry is a common point of debate)

Common point of debate for sure! Even the experts don't always agree on this issue.

Not being one of the experts, I simply follow the tried/true process of starting fermentation in a high oxygen environment so the yeast will multiply; when the fermentation slows, I seal the wine up and add an air lock to limit oxygen access.

 

[bstnh1]

I doubt if using bottled water contributed to your lack of gas. I use store bought spring water in all my wines and always have enough gas to share!!

 

[Julie]

you guys have me confused now...
i have been letting it ferment completely in primary...sg same after 3 are 4 days. then racking to secondary to await settlement and racking again.

That is what I do, when it gets down to 1.010 snap the lid down and add an airlock and let it ferment to dry, then rack to carboy.