Kit Aging Consult

[qyhcat]

First of all, Thanks for your feedback during my first year in winemaking. I have gone through 14 kits and enjoyed all so far. My biggest challenge is the wait part, drank them too quick...now increased my production so I can let some to age.
I also did premium kits and the difference is significant even at the two month mark, cant wait for the one year

So far my aging has to go in wine coolers using bottled wine. So, I'd like to know how much I might be loosing by aging in bottle vs aging in carboy. I want to determine if it merits increasing my fridge space to accomodate carboys for longer periods.... or if due to being just kits it will not make a huge difference and I can still do bottle aging, which is simpler for me.

Any feedback is welcomed.

thanks in advance.
luis

 

[salcoco]

I have bottled after six months in the bottle and aged up to four years in the bottle. storage in a wine cooler is not required if you have space that will not vary in temp 10-20deg from summer to winter. best temp is constant at 65 deg. I built a insulated room in my basement two walls were not insulated as they were the cellar cement walls the other two were insulated. room temp would be about 55-60 in winter and about 75 in summer with the house ac on. keep the wine cooler full as wine is consumed to serve wine at a constant temp.

 

[bkisel]

I've a kit bulk & bottle aging strategy that works well for me. When the kit instructions would have me bottle I rack to a fresh carboy and bulk age in months for 1/2 the number of weeks the kit is - i.e. 4-week kit 2 months; a 6-week kit 3 months; etc.. I'll then bottle age for the same length of time that I've bulk aged.

I'm noticing that later bottles drunk of higher end kit wines do show marked improvement over the early drunk bottles; low end kit wine not so much.

 

[qyhcat]

Aging

Thanks for the replies. I am in South FL and with A/C best I can keep is 70-75 year round which I understand is too high for storage/aging. I guess, sometime Ill have to consider allocating one room with separate A/C.
I like the aging formula and knowledge on the low ends. Im on track then...

regards,
luis

 

[buffalofrenchy]

I started only in january this year and have made like 10 kits or so... all are the cheapest from Winexpert (Vintner reserve and world vineyard). Everyone tasting has been impressed by the wines. Except for the very first kit, I have been doing the 5-20-40-90 day schedule from Tim Vandergrift (http://winemakermag.com/blogs/making-your-kit-wine-shine-redeaux). That is just for the Carboy part. Bottle aging: I waited a month for white and two months for red for my summer dedicated kits.
As time goes, I make wine faster than I drink it so my reds for this winter will be aged about 5 months and white about three. Finally I am starting now what will be the summer 2015 red wine... so as you can see I stick to the 90 day wine marking schedule and aging more and more as my supply grows.
Once I am two year ahead, I will move on to higher end kits as I will have the time to let age appropriately.

 

[francois_du_nord]

qycat,

I just read Frenchy's linked article above, and I would highly recommend it. It has completely reordered my thoughts on bulk aging.


BF,

Have you thought about getting a couple of high end kits done now, so that they can age while you continue with your plan as described? I'm just starting, but I don't see much risk in getting a few kits out now that I want to age for 30 months or more, as I build and drink some fast developing inventory.

Thoughts?

 

[buffalofrenchy]

BF,

Have you thought about getting a couple of high end kits done now, so that they can age while you continue with your plan as described? I'm just starting, but I don't see much risk in getting a few kits out now that I want to age for 30 months or more, as I build and drink some fast developing inventory.

Thoughts?

Not for now for a couple of reasons:
1) since I make "a good amount of wine" right now i.e. faster than I can drink it to build a supply, adding high end kits would be expensive. I already spend over $150 a month since January. When I have a two/three year supply and only need to replace the wine that I drink then I can see myself moving toward high end kits.
2) since I tasted what I can get with low end kits, I don't feel pressure to spend twice as much for high end kits. Right now I am drinking Vintner Reserve Sauvignon Blanc and Mezza Luna White: both of these are excellent. French people are very picky (read snobby) about wine and some of my wine made it to France, 4 people tried it and can't believe it is coming out of my basement. I also have a Vintner Reserve Coastal Red. It's good although I might not make this one again.
Others that I made: VR Riesling, World Vineyard Au Cab w grape skins, WV Shiraz Zinfandel, WV Pinot Noir. All of these are in various stage of carboy and/or bottles aging. To balance out cost, I also made Dragon Blood twice and some low qty experiments with Welsh juices.

 

[richmke]

I bulk age reds so that I can avoid adding the clarifiers/fining agents.

I then have free clarifiers for my DB and SP batches.

 

[bkisel]

I bulk age reds so that I can avoid adding the clarifiers/fining agents.

I then have free clarifiers for my DB and SP batches.

And I thought I was cheap! Uh, I mean frugal.

BTW, I see your footnote mentions RJS Super Tuscan. Started drinking mine recently and consider it the best kit wine of the 8-10 different kits I've made. Like it better than the RJS CCWS Washington Merlot and the Merlot also came out really nice.

 

[Elmer]

Not for now for a couple of reasons:
1) since I make "a good amount of wine" right now i.e. faster than I can drink it to build a supply, adding high end kits would be expensive. I already spend over $150 a month since January. When I have a two/three year supply and only need to replace the wine that I drink then I can see myself moving toward high end kits.
2) since I tasted what I can get with low end kits, I don't feel pressure to spend twice as much for high end kits. Right now I am drinking Vintner Reserve Sauvignon Blanc and Mezza Luna White: both of these are excellent. French people are very picky (read snobby) about wine and some of my wine made it to France, 4 people tried it and can't believe it is coming out of my basement. I also have a Vintner Reserve Coastal Red. It's good although I might not make this one again.
Others that I made: VR Riesling, World Vineyard Au Cab w grape skins, WV Shiraz Zinfandel, WV Pinot Noir. All of these are in various stage of carboy and/or bottles aging. To balance out cost, I also made Dragon Blood twice and some low qty experiments with Welsh juices.

I used to do the same, make only cheaper kits because I did not want to spend over $100 up to and past $150 for a kit. When I could spend half as much and get the same amount of wine.

Then I made the high end Super tuscan....
And now I will never go back to anything under 18L

And for the record I took the remaining wine made from 10L kits and I am making vinegar with it!!!
Not to mention the 18L age better than the 10L,
but to each their own!

 

[DoctorCAD]

6 months in a carboy and 6 months (min) in a bottle.

Oh, and I dont have a cellar or any cool place, I just have a closet in a spare bedroom. The temp in the house varies 73 - 78 or so and I have yet to "ruin" a wine. I just keep the door closed most of the time.

Alcohol and firearms all in the same closet, makes it easier on the Feds when they decide to come and take my stuff!

P.S. I opened the last bottle of a RQ2010 South African Cab Franc/Merlot last night. I never liked it too much, but it was drinkable. Now I am sorry I don't have 29 more bottles left. It has completely changed.

 

[Thig]

I have been doing the 5-20-40-90 day schedule from Tim Vandergrift (http://winemakermag.com/blogs/making-your-kit-wine-shine-redeaux). That is just for the Carboy part.

Good article but I am not sure about this quote from the article.

"The interface seal between the neck of a carboy and the bung is actually really leaky: the oxygen transfer rate is hundreds of times higher than that of a cork."

I thought long term aging in a carboy was OK. And by aging I mean maybe a year, not talking about years here.

 

[cmason1957]

Good article but I am not sure about this quote from the article.

"The interface seal between the neck of a carboy and the bung is actually really leaky: the oxygen transfer rate is hundreds of times higher than that of a cork."

I thought long term aging in a carboy was OK. And by aging I mean maybe a year, not talking about years here.

I have read that same thing and don't quite understand it. I think if you add 1/4 tsp every three months (or better yet measure) SO2, you will be just fine. I generally don't go over the year mark, but I know some folks who do. My guess is that the writer of the article (Tim Vandergrift) had ulterior motives in writing that. Full carboys don't sell more wine kits.

 

[Thig]

My guess is that the writer of the article (Tim Vandergrift) had ulterior motives in writing that. Full carboys don't sell more wine kits.

You may be right, nothing worse than staring at a bunch of empty carboys.

 

[Dugger]

Having met and talked to Tim a couple of times, I believe he is a straight shooter; I don't believe he would purposely steer us wrong in these matters.

 

[bkisel]

Having met and talked to Tim a couple of times, I believe he is a straight shooter; I don't believe he would purposely steer us wrong in these matters.

Is that your license plate? [

]

 

[richmke]

I read a description sheet on a California Pinot Noir. It said barrel aged for 10 months. It also said something about open air (uncovered?) fermenting to help preserve the delicate fruit flavors.

 

[sour_grapes]

Good article but I am not sure about this quote from the article.

"The interface seal between the neck of a carboy and the bung is actually really leaky: the oxygen transfer rate is hundreds of times higher than that of a cork."

I thought long term aging in a carboy was OK. And by aging I mean maybe a year, not talking about years here.

Well, it may be that both are very low. "Hundreds of times more than" something that is very, very low may be only "very low."

Nonetheless, I follow this basic protocol.