How long can I let it sit for clearing

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Coaster

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I have this Mango Citrus Symphony kit clearing for 2 months now. I can tell it's clearing because the top 1/2 - 1/3 is clear but man is it taking a long time. How long can I let it sit there and clear? There is a very light dusting of lees on the bottom but I don't want to rack only to have to go thru 2 months of more clearing.


I think I know why it's taking so long too.
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If I must admit it. You know the part of the instructions that says "Do not rack off the lees....." Yeah. Well, I thought to myself "Come on, there's always an inch of lees in there and it makes subsequent rackings harder for a noobie like me and I lose more wine so I'll rack, but not carefully, and take some of the lees but not all of them for the clearing stage". Yes, I know someone tried this before and they had a hard time getting it to clear too. But what can I say I thought "Hey they didn't take any lees and I'll take some of the lees to help with the clearing, just not all of em".
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No problem as it will eventually clear but if you don't want to wait another 2-3 months try some Super-Kleer and it will take care of it.
 
Coaster, it will clear with time, and I don't think letting it sit will cause any harm.

It is, however, really important to get the amount of lees into the secondary for clarification. Here is why.

Lees carry an electrical charge. I don't know if it is positive (+) or negative (-). For this example, let's assume the lees are +. As we all know, like charges repel each other, and this repulsion works against the settling of the lees. There are actually two mechanisms at work here. First is the charge repulsion. The second is particle size. Intuitively we know that a pebble falls faster through water than a grain of sand, which falls faster than a particle of clay.

[Apologies to Sir Isaac Newton, but he was wrong. Smaller (and less dense) objects fall more slowly through air as well. Think of a raindrop and a snowflake. It's just that what he was using in his experiments were not different enough to observe the differences. Thank goodness, or we may never have understood gravity.]

The smallness issue continues to smaller and smaller particles (some mining waste will take 50 years to settle) until Brownian motion takes over and stops settling all together. That's why pectic haze never clears.

Particles naturally want to get together and hold on to each other (like kids at a frat party). The purpose of a clarifying agent is to neutralize the charge so they can do just that (the purpose of wine at that frat party - ironic, huh?). What clarifiers like Insinglass and chitosan do is neutralize the charge on the particles.

The next thing that needs to happen is that the neutralized particles need to bump into each other so they can "hook up." That's how the particles get bigger. The more of them that there are, the higher the chance they will bump and attach. Any water treatment plant guy can tell you that almost clear water is the hardest to clarify.

Even the "some of the lees" that you racked over is enough for the bumping/attaching. However, the quantity of clarifier is geared toward the total quantity of charge that needs to be neutralized. The net result of reducing the quantity of lees prior to clarification is that the particles were overcharged, converting them, in our example, from + to -.

They will settle, but they will be very light and fluffy, Once they have settled, rack the wine and add a very small amount of bentonite. Bentonite acts differently from other clarifiers. It is actually a very porous mineral that sucks tiny particles in and creates those large particles needed for settling.

My brain hurts. I haven't thout about this stuff for years!
 
Since opposites (positive and negative charges) attract so well is the reason the Super-Kleer product works great as it creates strong positive and strong negative charges in your wine.


Great tutorial as usual Dr. Z
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Hey, Peter, you think your'e brain hurts, huh? No, seriously,that was
excellent. You're definately a guy on my same wave-length. I'm only
into this hobby four months now, but I have made some very definate
observations in that short amount of time regarding clarity. A- when
extracting the juice regardless of what fruit, your'e best friend, it
looks like to me, is the steam extraction method. The other gimme,
which I never hear anyone talking about on these forums, is champagne
yeast. I guess that would be B-. Forgive me, I've had several glasses
of x-mas day beaujolais this evening. I'm sure you understand.Seems
like to me the nature of the champagne yeast is more apt to drop a
heavier, more definative lee. Combination of those two things in
concert with each other lend themselves to pretty darn clear wine
pretty darn quick. Whadd'ya say, Peter?
 
Peter,


Your head should hurt!
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All of that information just trying to escape. I skipped high school chemistry for debate (thought I was going to be an attorney!) I should have take the chemistry.


Coaster,


When all else fails, follow the instructions. There is a solid reason with basis in fact behind each line of the instructions. Remember, WE makes almost 1,000,000 kits per year. I have to believe they know what they are doing.


The alcohol level in the Island Mist kits are low and meant to be drunk quickly. As a result, I would add the SuperKleer and bottle. Leaving it in the carboy for another 2 months is probably not the best idea, at this time.
 
Thanks Peter. I kninda knew that but thought that what I got would be good enough, didn't even think about the ratio or the bentonite in the primary.


I have the Super Kleer on order 8O).


I forgot to mention some of the instructions make me confused (not the instructions, but why different kits have different instructions). For example, the All Juice Soave I have going says to rack everything including lees from the fermenter to the carboy but at the clearing step you need to rack off most of the less, whereas the WE kits says do not rack off the lees at the fining step. Both use bentonite.Edited by: Coaster
 
Why different yeasts give different density lees I do not know. I can think of several possible reasons, but none of them might be the right ones.

Coaster - Why does one kit say to do it one way and another kit says to do it the opposite? Because that's what works for that kit.
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Like George says, WE makes about 1M kits per year, so they probably know best how to handle each kit.
 
This will make your brain hurt:



Yeast flocculation is a complicated process that is currently only partly understood. It requires the presence of at least two types of molecules on the yeast cell surface. One type is mannans (carbohydrate chains), which are produced by the gene products of the MNN genes and are present on the cell surface at all times. The other type is flocculins (sugar binding proteins), which are the gene products of the FLO genes, that are activated only after depletion of nutrients. The flocculins bind to mannans on the surface of neighboring cells leading to the cross binding of cells and ultimately the formation of flocs, each consisting of several cells. Due to the reduced surface to volume ratio of the aggregated cells, the flocs sediment much faster relative to the free cells.
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Oh man, its too early for chemistry 101 to sink into this skull! As a matter of fact I dont think chemistry ever sank in!
 
OK, masta, that makes sense. The amount of mannan and flocculin molecules on the surface of the yeast is probably variety dependant. The more there, the tighter and denser the floc.
 
Finally got it in the bottle. My wife is very happyit has a coconut taste (because I dislike coconut very much - more for her
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).


20070203_094907_IMG_0217.JPG



20070203_094932_Symphony_close_.jpg
 
coaster, that looks awesome! I love the label... very nice
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it feels good huh?
 
Oh yeah, Very happy and I got to use my new filter and Fill Jet on this batch. Soooo neat to have those toys and it made bottling a snap.
 
I didnt taste the coconut in my friends as we exchange wines but I have
1 left so next time i'll have to remember to try and taste for
coconut.
 

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