Fermenting never started

[furious82]

So I wanted to make a gallon of white grape and a gallon of strawberry both from concentrate just as test batches. I mixed 3 cans of concentrates and 7 cans of water, added sugar up to 1090SG, hydrated my yeast for about 10 minutes and addded it to the batches. This was last night and as of now I have no activity and all the yeast is at the bottom of the jugs. There is 1 thing I did differently then several other batches and that is I heated up the water that I used to hydrate the yeast. Our hot water heater is on the fritz so I heated it up in the microwave. Is it possible that the water was to hot and killed my yeast?

 

[mmadmikes1]

Yes it is possible, didn't you check temp? Did you check to see if the concentrate has preservatives in it? Try making a starter using some apple juice and yeast and some yeast nutrients.You can re-pitch the yeast and try again.

 

[jswordy]

I'm kinda skeptical that the water killed the yeast, but it's possible. I never test temp of starter water. If it is body temp (lukewarm), it is good to go. If I can hold the container in my hand comfortably, the water is about right.

I am less skeptical about the chance your juices had sorbate in them, or that you perhaps added k meta and either did not wait long enough for it to mellow out or added too much. Julie's right on about the juice starter. Make it the same as you would with water, warming it a bit. If you have a really good fast SO2 tolerant yeast (like maybe EC-1118 or another that is known for helping stuck fermentations), you could use that. I'd try just lightly pouring the started yeast on top of the must so it can get adjusted. I would not stir then for 24 hours. After that I would stir it in really well.

 

[rjb222]

So I wanted to make a gallon of white grape and a gallon of strawberry both from concentrate just as test batches. I mixed 3 cans of concentrates and 7 cans of water, added sugar up to 1090SG, hydrated my yeast for about 10 minutes and addded it to the batches. This was last night and as of now I have no activity and all the yeast is at the bottom of the jugs. There is 1 thing I did differently then several other batches and that is I heated up the water that I used to hydrate the yeast. Our hot water heater is on the fritz so I heated it up in the microwave. Is it possible that the water was to hot and killed my yeast?

What you have described is why RJS moved away from building a yeast starter. When done properly you get a live hard working yeast colony ready to munch the sugars. But do one thing that yeast does not like and you get diddly. Now I am not saying that the practice needs to be stopped but sprinkling the package of yeast directly on top of the must will start your wine every time providing you are using fresh yeast.

 

[jswordy]

What you have described is why RJS moved away from building a yeast starter. When done properly you get a live hard working yeast colony ready to munch the sugars. But do one thing that yeast does not like and you get diddly. Now I am not saying that the practice needs to be stopped but sprinkling the package of yeast directly on top of the must will start your wine every time providing you are using fresh yeast.

I have never had it fail using either method, except the very first time I tried to make wine. I overdid the k meta, and that must never did ferment after repeated tries. I tossed it.

For me, the noticeable difference between the two methods is the time element. Invariably for me, the yeast takes off a full day quicker than sprinkling when it is started, even if it is started in just plain lukewarm water with no sugar added. I still do it either way, depending on whether I feel like making a starter or not and have the time.

My musts are not the "reluctant" type, but I have a sneaky suspicion that starting the yeast first would work better if I had a must that I suspected might be a slow starter. Have not done a notoriously slow must yet to try it out.

 

[rjb222]

jswordy. You are correct for the reasons you stated I have not totally left behind yeast starters. I read what furious82 stated and really saw nothing wrong with his described method as long as the water was not frigid. So my question becomes what is the best way to proceed. I think with the yeast all laying on the bottom indicates a non starter so waiting for the action to start is a waste of time and a chance for an infection to set in. I would say put on a fresh package and sprinkle that on get the must working. Then we know he has a live viable culture going for him.

 

[jswordy]

jswordy. You are correct for the reasons you stated I have not totally left behind yeast starters. I read what furious82 stated and really saw nothing wrong with his described method as long as the water was not frigid. So my question becomes what is the best way to proceed. I think with the yeast all laying on the bottom indicates a non starter so waiting for the action to start is a waste of time and a chance for an infection to set in. I would say put on a fresh package and sprinkle that on get the must working. Then we know he has a live viable culture going for him.

Yep, we both agree on restarting, I would just "float" a started yeast containing some of the must juice on top of the must, while you would sprinkle yeast dry directly on it. I like the started yeast because you know before it goes in that: 1.) It is active; 2.) it can live eating the must.

I am really suspicious of the must, though. Preservatives in the juice would do the trick. On the other hand, it is easy to overheat water in a microwave, since it does not readily boil. Shrug. We agree - try again!

 

[Julie]

I'm agreeing with Jswordy, I am wondering if there is something wrong with the must. For the yeast to just fall directly to the bottom tells me that the yeast could not fine anything that they could eat. What is the name brand of the juice that you used?

And when you heated up the water did you have the yeast already in the water? If not, do you know how hot the water was before you added the yeast?

 

[furious82]

Thanks for the help guys.
Im pretty sure the temp of the water killed it. I removed the water (without yeast) from the microwave a split second after I saw bubbles forming. I then pored it into 2 individual cups with the yeast and mixed them. I have tried both pouring the yeast directly into the juice and hydrating the yeast in warm water for a few minutes before adding it to the yeast. I have never had a batch not start. The only difference is we didn't have hot water and I think I got it to hot. It was EC-1118. I will add more yeast and see if it gets it started. I know 1 small packet of yeast will ferment up to 5 gallons, so can I split a packet and add half to one gallon and half to the other?

 

[mmadmikes1]

In line with discussion if you have a yeast starter going and add it to a juice with sorbate in in it will still work. It would probably not if you were to just sprinkle it on. Once an fermentation is active(strong starter) sorbate and Kmeta will not stop it until you add enough to make wine undrinkable. This is why I suggested a starter.

 

[furious82]

Good news! I got home from work and both jugs were fermenting! It took over 24 hours for it to get going. However, im still concered since it took so long is it possible that some of the yeast will not begin to ferment and I wont get as much alcohol? Since these started I think I will leave them alone just to see what happens and use it as a learning experience.

 

[rjb222]

You will be just fine. The yeast population will grow and do it's thing no worries. Result love it.