Stalled primary, cold start.

[Applewineguy]

Brand new Raspberry Honey Melomel.
Started with Must being too cold.
All sanitation procedures followed.
Starting S.G. 1.113
K1-V1116 yeast
Yeast energizer and nutrient added calculated per gallon.
Yeast hydrated and added 24hrs after mixing up the primary ingredients.

Ferm started a tiny bit but stalled within 24 hrs due to temp I believe.
Today grabbed 2 heat belts and tossed them on and temp is holding a steady 22°C now.
Have stirred up the must a few times today to keep Yeast moving.
Is my yeast dead and should I add another pack or should I give it over night to see if she kicks off?

 

[Rice_Guy]

22 isn’t a bad temp, if you think it stalled at 10 or less it should start back up just by adding heat and splashing some oxygen in. ,,,, If it was actually growing, the yeast would not be dead because of low temperature. Stress as pH or high gravity or low oxygen would concern me.

On my part the gravity is high which is a stress on the yeast, my red raspberry can get down to pH 3.1 or 3.0 which is another stress on the yeast. Just to get a healthy culture I would do a starter >> grow it out through a few dilutions (2 or 3) of the must then add it to the bulk.

 

[Applewineguy]

22 isn’t a bad temp, if you think it stalled at 10 or less it should start back up just by adding heat and splashing some oxygen in. ,,,, If it was actually growing, the yeast would not be dead because of low temperature. Stress as pH or high gravity or low oxygen would concern me.

On my part the gravity is high which is a stress on the yeast, my red raspberry can get down to pH 3.1 or 3.0 which is another stress on the yeast. Just to get a healthy culture I would do a starter >> grow it out through a few dilutions (2 or 3) of the must then add it to the bulk.

With the heat now at 22° and several stirrings to introduce oxygen, the yeast cells at the top floating have dwindled dramatically compared to initial photo.
I've made a starter and it is sitting on my table now letting it do its thing. Just don't want to end up with a bunch of yeast cells creating an off flavor of my wine. This is the first time I've had a situation like this so it's a tad stressful and I've never dealt with starters, I've always just hydrated yeast and thrown it in.

 

[winemaker81]

Yeast cells are used as yeast nutrient, so I doubt you'll have a problem in that regard.

A starter should kick things into gear. I've been making overnight starters for almost 3 years now, and will continue doing it, as the fermentation ignites quickly. A bonus is that if the yeast is not viable, the starter won't foam so you'll know before inoculating.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Yeast are naturally present in the environment, Your risk is that if you have a slow start you may get a wild fermentation because of yeast in your winery. Second risk, as long as there is less than 5% alcohol mold and bacterial infection, these would generally be aerobic film formers like Acetobacter.

 

[Applewineguy]

Update, this morning it kicked off nicely and now tonight it is full blown fermenting so good to go. Thanks folks.

 

[David Violante]

Glad it’s kicked off well!

A starter should kick things into gear.

Just to get a healthy culture I would do a starter >> grow it out through a few dilutions (2 or 3) of the must then add it to the bulk.

This process has been really helpful for my inoculations as well.

1. A good starter
2. Once you're ready to pitch, add some must to the starter a few times to acclimate the yeast to the environment of the must (pH, food source, temperature…)
   

 

[Applewineguy]

Glad it’s kicked off well!




This process has been really helpful for my inoculations as well.

1. A good starter
2. Once you're ready to pitch, add some must to the starter a few times to acclimate the yeast to the environment of the must (pH, food source, temperature…)

Me too! I was worried there for a bit. Few new worries though as I do have concerns about my acidity and PH. I took a long break from brewing and haven't got an acid test kit yet. Everything is ordered and on the way but worried my long awaited raspberry honey wine will be too tart to save after post fermentation as I know it is best to adjust such things before fermentation. I'm hoping things aren't too out of wack when it's done fermenting and it will still taste good as an end product . I got excited and rushed this batch before having my acid sorted and I'm kicking myself in the butt for it lol.


I always just hydrated my yeast but things are a bit different in my new place and Temps are a bugger to manage here in the basement. I think that was the major issue. I think I'll work with starters from now on though just to insure things kick off smoothly in the future.

 

[David Violante]

We've all just jumped in at some point in some way. No worries, you’re where you are now and not back at the point of starting it all over. Those experiences will come through when you begin the next ones.

For where you are now, if your must is a bit too acidic there are a few options you have to reduce acid. When you test remember that dissolved CO2 will have an effect on your pH reading, giving you a lower than actual level. I like to try some mechanical options like cold crashing or blending before additive options. To me they tend to give a slight metallic taste to the end product. Just my tastebuds. See where you are when your test kit comes in. Have you tasted it? What’s it like now?

 

[Rice_Guy]

* if you don’t like the basement temp you can always create your starter upstairs or run a small heated magnetic mixer at 22C. In growing out a pure culture we always start in the lab, not the factory floor.
* my mom never tested pH or ran a TA. (traditional recipes work/ optimum doesn’t really exist) After a few years in the pilot plant I could taste and guess what the machine reading would be. Going totally by taste works. Yes it does take practice. Yes some folks are better. Practice.
* the best flavor currant I had so much acid that it was hard to finish a glass. More fruit gives more flavor.
* for the best aromatics I would rather run at 10C / 50F than at 20 or 25C. ,,, We eat with our nose before our mouth. ,,, I have a good idea if a wine gets a blue ribbon just by smelling it.
* acid and tannins balance against sweet sugars and alcohol. I have seen 1% TA (high solids) balance against 1.015 residual sugar. Tastes can be worked out, no matter what the acid level. ex C Cola is pH 1.5

 

[winemaker81]

* my mom never tested pH or ran a TA. (traditional recipes work/ optimum doesn’t really exist) After a few years in the pilot plant I could taste and guess what the machine reading would be. Going totally by taste works. Yes it does take practice. Yes some folks are better. Practice.

Regardless of what anyone tests or doesn't test, this is fantastic advice. Rely on your senses, not arbitrary numbers.

Why do I say "arbitrary"? If a wine's pH is 3.46 ... whether or not that is a good number depends completely on the other constituents in a wine.

 

[Applewineguy]

We've all just jumped in at some point in some way. No worries, you’re where you are now and not back at the point of starting it all over. Those experiences will come through when you begin the next ones.

For where you are now, if your must is a bit too acidic there are a few options you have to reduce acid. When you test remember that dissolved CO2 will have an effect on your pH reading, giving you a lower than actual level. I like to try some mechanical options like cold crashing or blending before additive options. To me they tend to give a slight metallic taste to the end product. Just my tastebuds. See where you are when your test kit comes in. Have you tasted it? What’s it like now?

I pulled a sample mid ferment and expelled the Co2. Tested my sample at 0.8% TA. My target was 0.6%

Minus the co2 influence, the wine tastes really quite good and isn't all that tart but it is still very sweet at the moment.

I normally don't chase numbers but I do like my acid to be on par with 0.6% whenever possible. I'm not entirely sure if I could get away with diluting to lower my acidity or not as I don't want to lose too much color or flavor.

 

[Applewineguy]

* if you don’t like the basement temp you can always create your starter upstairs or run a small heated magnetic mixer at 22C. In growing out a pure culture we always start in the lab, not the factory floor.
* my mom never tested pH or ran a TA. (traditional recipes work/ optimum doesn’t really exist) After a few years in the pilot plant I could taste and guess what the machine reading would be. Going totally by taste works. Yes it does take practice. Yes some folks are better. Practice.
* the best flavor currant I had so much acid that it was hard to finish a glass. More fruit gives more flavor.
* for the best aromatics I would rather run at 10C / 50F than at 20 or 25C. ,,, We eat with our nose before our mouth. ,,, I have a good idea if a wine gets a blue ribbon just by smelling it.
* acid and tannins balance against sweet sugars and alcohol. I have seen 1% TA (high solids) balance against 1.015 residual sugar. Tastes can be worked out, no matter what the acid level. ex C Cola is pH 1.5

I live in a basement suite. I don't have much choice haha. I am running two heat belts to keep things moving smoothly. My yeast would not move at 18°C so 10C wouldn't be viable.