Everclear to fortify a port

[joeswine]

evercleer??????????taste

Evercleer will always change the taste of the wine no dought,be careful ...

 

[ibglowin]

Nope, he says 77% GRAPE spirits.

As the fermenting wine pours into the vat, a very clean young wine brandy is added to it. This colourless neutral spirit, at strength of 77% alcohol, is usually added in a ratio of about 115 litres of brandy to 435 litres of fermenting wine although this proportion can vary.

According to this video (near the end) from Taylor, they are adding 77% neutral grain spirits.

 

[ibglowin]

You can find some pretty high ~100 proof Grappa floating around. Problem is its $$$ so not worth the added expense.

Why would you make a port out of something only 12% to start with? Start with a super high SG must that when finished you will have ~16.5% ABV then backwsweeten with a grape concentrate (or similar, make your own from some of the must) then you only need to bump ABV 2-3% max.

You could of course make your own 150 proof Grappa but we can't discuss that on these forums.

Maybe I went to too many College parties but I can smell Everclear at 3 feet and taste it immediately in anything. Its just one of those things you never forget the smell of or taste of if you catch my drift......

Where can a home winemaker or consumer buy high proof brandy?

My problem is with 40% (80 proof) brandy you would need to add 2 gallons of brandy to a 5 gallon batch of 12% alcohol wine to get to 20% alcohol. That's a lot of dilution.

If you use 95% everclear you need only 0.5 gallons as it's almost pure alcohol.

If you are adding the alcohol earlier in the fermentation with lower alcohol, it's just that much more brandy you would need to add. Closer to 50/50 wine/brandy. At what point is it no longer a port wine?

 

[GreginND]

Why would you make a port out of something only 12% to start with? Start with a super high SG must that when finished you will have ~16.5% ABV then backwsweeten with a grape concentrate (or similar, make your own from some of the must) then you only need to bump ABV 2-3% max.

Traditional port is made by stopping fermentation by fortification after about half the sugar is converted to alcohol. Thus, fortification is done when the wine is only ~7% alcohol.

 

[ibglowin]

Nope. Two ways to get there as previously discussed.

 

[Runningwolf]

Traditional port is made by stopping fermentation by fortification after about half the sugar is converted to alcohol. Thus, fortification is done when the wine is only ~7% alcohol.

I went to a workshop at Penn State about six months ago. They had a leading famous winemaker instructing from France. He also talked about stopping fermentation at around 7 brix (don't remember exact number) and the fortifying as you mention. Doing this you retained more flavor. I think I would like to try and do this next year.

I also remember hearing about holding back some juice, adding your spirits to that and adding it back in, which would add additional sugar and flavor. I suppose each winery has there own way of doing it.

 

[JohnT]

Just my opinion on this matter..

I usually fotify 3 gallons of wine (at 8 to 10 brix) with 2 gallons of good brandy. (This is just an approximation). I then barrel age it for a year or more.

Personally, I want a port that has brandy flavor components. Since most brandy is distilled wine, I find (to my taste) that both ingredients combine to form a great flavor profile.

I know that the cost is up there, but my port is not something that you would drink in high quantities. A half glass by the fireplace is all that is needed. A case of port will last me years!

 

[ibglowin]

The big boys do usually stop fermentation at ~10 brix with fortification of a very high ABV grappa. They do not use grain spirits. If a commercial winery were ever to use something other than grape spirits it would have to be listed out separately on the bottle. For the home winemaker if your concerned about the amount of brandy being used your only real option IMHO is to ferment fully to dry, add an F-Pack of sorts and then fortify with brandy.

Nothing says "amateur" like a port wine fortified with Everclear but to each his own I suppose......

 

[seth8530]

Im not sure about everklear being rout of all evil in the fortification process. . EC is pretty neutral; however, I will say if price was not an option I would opt for brandy or grappa. I will be able to tell you some of my everklear results once my port has managed to cool down. I fortified it with around 1.75 L of EC

 

[vacuumpumpman]

As I have stated earlier - if you take the EC and clean it up with distiller grade charcoal . The taste or smells that some people talk about are very minimal.

 

[GreginND]

Nope, he says 77% GRAPE spirits.

As the fermenting wine pours into the vat, a very clean young wine brandy is added to it. This colourless neutral spirit, at strength of 77% alcohol, is usually added in a ratio of about 115 litres of brandy to 435 litres of fermenting wine although this proportion can vary.

Ah, thanks. My ears are not what they used to be. I see on the printed description they clearly say brandy.

 

[GreginND]

Just my opinion on this matter..

I usually fotify 3 gallons of wine (at 8 to 10 brix) with 2 gallons of good brandy. (This is just an approximation). I then barrel age it for a year or more.

John, do you diminish much of the grape wine flavor by diluting it this much?

 

[Runningwolf]

John, I was also wondering about that and what abv are you shooting for? I created an awesome excel spreadsheet for determining the amount of spirits to use if anyone is interested based off the pearson square.

 

[Ricky]

I`m very intrested Runningwolf, i have a chocolate raspberry,down to 1.020 tonight ,and will be racking to secondary tomorrow...i have a bottle of everclear and a bottle of E&J XO...still don`t know what way to go yet.....have to do the math....started at 1.130 second day i feed 1/3 of the sugar..1.080 stepped up to 1.084.....third day...another 1/3....1.052 up to 1.059...4th day 1.038 added the last third...1.042...yesterday...1.030.....tonight 1.020... the instructions say rack at below 1.018....

 

[Runningwolf]

Ricky, pm me your email and I'll send it to you. We cannot post excel files on this forum as attachments. You will have to know your current approximate abv before using it and the abv of your spirits of choice.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Here is also a good web-based alcohol calcuator


http://vinoenology.com/calculators/fortification/

 

[seth8530]

Or you could check out my step feeding/ fortification calculator..... Its was posted in the tutorials now its in the write ups.

 

[JohnT]

Guys,

Wolf: I shoot for 20 to 22% apv. Two points over the tollerence of mosts yeasts. The base wine is fermented using RC-212, so my thinking is that 20 to 22 will stop fermentation dead.

Also, I prefer a port that is not too sweet. I keep the residual sugar a little lower than most. This is just to suit my simple tastes.


Gregin: I understand your concern about diminishing the wine flavor.

I find, however, that if you add everclear, you add nothing in the way of flavor. From a flavor point of view, my thinking is that it would be no different than adding water.

Brandy, on the other hand, adds flavor. One that I like.

This is just my simple opinion. Others may disagree.



Question: Isn't grappa just a strong form of brandy? Aren't they the same in that they are both made from distilled fermented grapes?

 

[ibglowin]

The main difference between the two is that Grappa is produced from grape pomace (left overs so to speak) and Brandy is produced from grape juice (i.e. the good stuff!)

See the Wiki Grappa page

especially the "overview" for more info.


Question: Isn't grappa just a strong form of brandy? Aren't they the same in that they are both made from distilled fermented grapes?

 

[JohnT]

That was my understanding also. Thanks glowing.