equipment questions

[joetattoo]

Hi, all
I haven't made wine for over 40 years, and before I buy anything, I would appreciate input on several issues'
Glass or plastic carboys? They were all glass back then.
I notice that some primary fermenters have a spigot on the bottom. (my primary was a plastic trash can covered with cheese cloth). Do they serve a useful purpose, or will a syphon hose work as well.
I see that there is more than one kind of airlock now. Are they all the same, except for the way they look?
What sanitizers are used today?
One final question. Not for the next couple of years, as I will be sticking with kits for a while, but since I live in wine country, do the vineyards actually sell grapes to home brewers at harvest time? And, if so, are they the same quality as what they bottle?
Thanks so much for any help you can give me
Joe

 

[tanddc]

I am no expert but:

As far as the carboys, I have both. The plastic is easier to move and less chance of danger (which I am prone too). The "better bottles" are made of a special plastic that is much like glass in it permeability. I have heard they can be scratched however and this can be a sanitation issue.

I like the glass because they are 23 liters and they make a nice secondary. I rack from them to a 6 gallon better bottle I often don't have to add any additional wine to top them off.

I think the buckets with a siphon are for bottling. I do not use them but I like my auto syphon.

Regarding the airlocks, the 3 piece type (that I use) are easy to clean. The "S" style have the added benefit of telling you if your vessel pressure is higher or lower than atmospheric pressure. I personally don't find that information useful but others do. I think the "S" type look cooler though.

On sanitizers, some use Kmeta but personally I like star san. I use if for everything.

I'm afraid I can't help you on the grape question. I am a kit and dragonsblood guy.

Tim

 

[Jericurl]

Get a floor corker. Seriously. We just got one and I'm kicking myself for messing about with the hand held one for so long.

I just use large buckets for my primaries but I'm about to make a trip to Home Depot or Lowe's and get one of the 10 or 15 gallon brute trash cans to use as a primary.

Most of my secondary vessels are plastic, Better Bottle brand. I pretty much broke all the glass ones and decided I could do without having to deal with wine and broken glass anymore. If you aren't as clumsy as me then it shouldn't be a problem. Also if you decide to seriously get into doing this and buy auto-degassing machines or one of those all in one siphon/filter/degass/bottle machines, they only work with a glass carboy.

I use Star San as my cleaner. Measuring tool is built into the bottle it comes in, I don't have to rinse it off, and it doesn't have any kind of long soaking time. Easy peasey.

I have both types of airlocks, but I am phasing out the 3 piece ones. They seem to require more checking and adding liquid to them, etc. I've come across several that dried out, I swear over the course of a couple of days and all my s shaped airlocks were doing fine.

 

[bkisel]

I am no expert but:

As far as the carboys, I have both. The plastic is easier to move and less chance of danger (which I am prone too). The "better bottles" are made of a special plastic that is much like glass in it permeability. I have heard they can be scratched however and this can be a sanitation issue.

I like the glass because they are 23 liters and they make a nice secondary. I rack from them to a 6 gallon better bottle I often don't have to add any additional wine to top them off.

I think the buckets with a siphon are for bottling. I do not use them but I like my auto syphon.

Regarding the airlocks, the 3 piece type (that I use) are easy to clean. The "S" style have the added benefit of telling you if your vessel pressure is higher or lower than atmospheric pressure. I personally don't find that information useful but others do. I think the "S" type look cooler though.

On sanitizers, some use Kmeta but personally I like star san. I use if for everything.

I'm afraid I can't help you on the grape question. I am a kit and dragonsblood guy.

Tim

Thanks Tim... You pretty much wrote my reply for me.

Surprised to find that we use our glass vs. plastic carboys the same way.

I've yet to use Star San, can it be used in a spritz bottle like you can a k-meta sanitizing solution?

 

[richmke]

I would say a floor corker is a necessity.
Right behind that, an All-in-One wine pump is the best optional equipment you will buy.

If you are going to buy an All-in-One, then glass carboy is the only way to go. The plastic carboys cannot take the vacuum. With the All-in-One, you can also skip the spigot. One more thing to keep clean.

Any airlock for fermentation is fine. The 3 piece can pass air faster and is better for the primary, the S type is better for secondary because it allows air both ways. The vented silicone bung is my preference for long-term. It does not let air back into the carboy.

Star San is my sanitizer of choice. Sodium Metabisulfate is what I use to create a gas chamber to keep some stuff sanitized.

If you can get grapes from a vineyard, assuming it is the style grape you want, that is the best way to go. FYI: "same as they bottle" is not relevant. Better than what you can get in a kit (or juice buckets) is your relevant standard.

 

[bkisel]

Joe, welcome to the forum! Welcome back to wine making!

I've just been doing kits and Dragon Blood recipe wines myself.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

New at wine here (old at beer). Ditto on the floor corker and All-In-One pump system (best $200 I ever spent).

FWIW, I find the spigots useful, even though I have an All-In-One. I use them to draw out a quick sample to check SG. I don't use them for racking or bottling, but still prefer having them. On my plastic buckets, I added them myself by just drilling a hole and buying a spigot.

As for bottles... I personally have lots of glass carboys, and prefer them. FWIW, this is what happens when you put hot water in a Better Bottle:

 

[Tenbears]

Joe, I agree with everyone about the floor corker. It does a nice professional looking job, and is easy to use.
Although I have some Plastic carboys I prefer Glass, they do not collapse when using a vacuum pump to degas. And they never get cloudy. I can not speak for the newer plastic but the some I have used that got cloudy over time, and it became difficult to be sure the Mead/Wine had cleared to my satisfaction.
As for the primary fermentation bucket, I have one with and several without. Even with the petcock racking still needs to be done with a syphon the petcock is only useful for full transfers where you want to take the lees too. Or filling bottles once cleared and filtered, I have done it for so long exclusively with a syphon that I forget about the petcock.
I sanitize everything with Potassium metabisulphite at a rate of 2 Oz. per gallon of water. This is what people refer to as Kmet, K being the chemical symbol for Potassium, and met being abbreviation for metabisulphite. Just for your information since you have been out of the loop for a while.

As for grapes from local wineries,,, There are several on long Island that sell them, Jamesport Vineyards being one. If Memory serves They also sell fresh juice in season. which is a great way to make wine.
I have several Wineries close by that sell juice. The best as far as I am concerned Gave me a sample of their Fredonia wine. sold me the juice, and told me what yeast they use, then gave me a recipe for that years harvest. All though not quite as good as what they produce. It makes a darn fine wine none the less.

Don't limit yourself to kits, Jump in and experiment as soon as you get your sea legs. With all the help, and information available here, the days of dumping a bad batch are all but gone forever

 

[tanddc]

Thanks Tim... You pretty much wrote my reply for me.

Surprised to find that we use our glass vs. plastic carboys the same way.

I've yet to use Star San, can it be used in a spritz bottle like you can a k-meta sanitizing solution?

Bill,

I cant tell you about the spritz bottle, I am not certain what I would use if for. If I want to sanitize a surface (like my table so I can set things on it) I just wet a rag with the star-san and wipe. Everything else I just put in a 5 gallon bucket of star-san or, in the case of carboys, I just fill them up and slosh it around.

Joe,

Unlike the others, I have not found the need for a floor corker yet. I'm sure some day I will get one but for now, I would rather spend my money on other equipment (bottle washer, extra hydrometer) or kits. I have a double lever corker that came with my kit and I have had no trouble corking 30 bottle batches. Now if I wanted to do more than that in a sitting I might change my mind.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Spritz or spray bottle is he easiest way to sanitize. Spray a fine mist and thats it, sanitized!

 

[bkisel]

Yeah, a floor corker was not high on my equipment wish list but I got one as a Christmas gift last year so I've been using it over my double lever.

What about those bottle drying tree racks? Is that a piece of equipment worth having?

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I personally like my bottling cage - its a restaurant dishwashing rack - holds 25 bottles. I drip dry the bottles and then they go upright and I walk it over to the bottling station and then to the corker and last stage is labeling and back in the box.
I also wished I had the carboy cleaner when I first started making wine.

Yes some wineries do sell to the public - you should be contacting yout LHBS and or other winemakers

I like glass - because there are many sizes to down size for headspace reasons and I depend on the Allinonewinepump because I can not lift those heavy carboys all the time and bending over filling bottles also.

rich explained the difference between air locks

I like the floor corker - all depending on the quantity of wine you are making

.

 

[Tenbears]

Bill: those bottle drying trees are not worth having. They surfice do a degree for hock bottles, but Bordeaux bottles do not drain on them, the shoulder always holds water. The straight upside down racks are far better.

 

[joetattoo]

Thank you all so much for your replies. Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does this vacuum pump do? Is it just for racking? Also, for degassing, or is that a different machine? Being tall, I'm told that the Italian floor corker is a better choice than the Portuguese model, simply because it's easier on the back. At twice the money, is the Italian worth it? Can't wait to start gearing up. Wife is gonna kill me for sure, but she drinks Pinot Grigio, so 6 gallons should appease her. For my first kit, I am leaning towards one with a grape pack like the Eclipse. I like the big reds. so thinking of trying the Cab Sav. Do you think this kit is worth trying? Also, thanks for the heads up about the sanitizer. "Don't have to rinse" sounds wonderful. Also, thanks for the info about the grapes, Tenbears. That winery is about 15 miles from me, and after I get a couple of kits under my belt, I'm going to try them.
Joe

 

[richmke]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly does this vacuum pump do?

http://allinonewinepump.com/

It moves wine from point A (anything) to point B (glass), and degasses in the process. Assuming you use glass carboys and glass bottles, the only time it is not good moving wine is into a plastic pail for the primary fermenting.

 

[Olbuscap]

I would like to thank Jericurl for her comments regarding carboys. Thanks for mentioning the subject.
I make NO suggestions. I make NO advice. That said, here is my policy and what I use.
All carboys deserve a carboy handle. I always place the handle under the second ridge down, never the top ridge. I ALWAYS handle an empty carboy, especially wet glass, while having a good grip on the handle. I NEVER lift a full carboy using only the handle. I DO use: 1) a Brew Hauler, a webbed wrap-around lifting device with 2 handles. The handles are about carboy shoulder height meaning I can lift it higher that if using just the carboy handle, and the lifting force is applied under the carboy, or 2) a zip-up to the neck, keep the wine in the dark, cover with 2 lifting handles similar to the Brew Hauler plus a 3rd handle at the bottom of the cover. I try to not move a full carboy, but sometimes it just must be done. The lower handle makes it much easier to lift the carboy to counter height. I can still lift 50 pounds. I just cannot lift it as high as I used to be able to.
By the way, the zip-up cover has a name extremely similar to our favorite racking/degassing/bottling pump on this forum. It comes out of Missoula, MT, if I recall correctly. Just do a search for it. It comes in sizes that EXACTLY fit the carboy it is made for: 6S for a 6 gallon Better Bottle, 6T for a 6 gallon glass, etc.
As a reminder, I am not recommending anything. This is equipment that I use.

 

[cmason1957]

At twice the money, is the Italian worth it? Can't wait to start gearing up. Wife is gonna kill me for sure, but she drinks Pinot Grigio, so 6 gallons should appease her. For my first kit, I am leaning towards one with a grape pack like the Eclipse. I like the big reds. so thinking of trying the Cab Sav. Do you think this kit is worth trying?
Joe

The Italian corker is well worth the extra expense. I love mine and it makes corking so easy. My wife traded a lawn mower for ours. What a great trade.

The Eclipse cab sauv is a wonderful kit. Bottled about 3 months ago. Can't wait for a bit more to taste it.

 

[winesilly]

This Carboy Cleaner is one of my best buys so far.

http://www.carboycleaner.com/

 

[vacuumpumpman]

This Carboy Cleaner is one of my best buys so far.

http://www.carboycleaner.com/

I agree ! I'm surprised that I forget to mention it in the first post. I found that if you use a battery powered drill it saves the life on the replacement pads

 

[bkisel]

This Carboy Cleaner is one of my best buys so far.

http://www.carboycleaner.com/

I'm going to get one based just on the safety during cleaning benefit. I've already broken and cut myself (minor cut) while in the process of slosh cleaning a carboy. I think this product will be a more effective method of cleaning with less chance of my breaking another carboy.