WineXpert Eclipse Lodi Cab - calling all tweakers!

[AZMDTed]

I just took it one step further, received today, a small stainless steel fruit press. As you noted, I too was getting lots more juice extraction from wringing the bag, I still felt like I was leaving something on the table. I've got the WE Eclipse OVZ in the fermenter right now, and when the time comes, will go through the normal process of bagging and wringing the grape pack leftovers. I'm then gonna put that ball of stuff into the press and see what additional goodies I can get out of it. I hope it to be substantial.

I used to have the drive to squeeze everything out of the grape pack. Two protein overdoses from doing that stopped that habit. Now I'm much more gentle with my grape pack in the Lodi Cab. If you haven't seen it before excess protein leaves a thick milky colored layer around the sides of the carboy just below the wine line and leaves a sheen on top of the wine. It tends to happen during clearing after beating up the grape pack too much during primary. Until I figured it out and found out that it didn't ruin my wine it was nerve racking. Hopefully it won't happen again.

UPDATE: Here's a link to my experience with the protein overload:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51241

Also, I see that it was in secondary when it started, not clearing as I mentioned above.

 

[Johnd]

I used to have the drive to squeeze everything out of the grape pack. Two protein overdoses from doing that stopped that habit. Now I'm much more gentle with my grape pack in the Lodi Cab. If you haven't seen it before excess protein leaves a thick milky colored layer around the sides of the carboy just below the wine line and leaves a sheen on top of the wine. It tends to happen during clearing after beating up the grape pack too much during primary. Until I figured it out and found out that it didn't ruin my wine it was nerve racking. Hopefully it won't happen again.

I would hope that the Bentonite in the wine would handle the proteins, but I suppose if it doesn't, it may need a little addition to clear it up. Thanks for the warning, I'll be sure to keep a close eye on the protein situation............

 

[joeswine]

In the mix

when you said you poured from one container to the next does that mean you weren't using an auto syphon? what I have found once the primary is completed or almost completed and you plan to move it by then the alcohol has already done it's function and extracted anything worth while from the fpac ,yes you can squeezes it and get more liquid out but it will have a bitter taste, taste it next time you'll see, so buy just racking them out as I do and using a auto syphon for racking the job is completed, but that's just my way what ever works for you is cool,

 

[jgmann67]

when you said you poured from one container to the next does that mean you weren't using an auto syphon? what I have found once the primary is completed or almost completed and you plan to move it by then the alcohol has already done it's function and extracted anything worth while from the fpac ,yes you can squeezes it and get more liquid out but it will have a bitter taste, taste it next time you'll see, so buy just racking them out as I do and using a auto syphon for racking the job is completed, but that's just my way what ever works for you is cool,

That's correct - I did not use the auto-siphon. Others had said that it simply clogs up the wand and is nearly impossible to complete the racking. Suggestions were to pour from the primary into another primary container, with a straining bag. Then pull the bag from the wine and squeeze. I would say that I lost about the same amount of juice as if I did it by the book (with the grape skins dumped into the bag initially, then dropped into the juice)... So I'm hopeful that I avoid any bitter taste.

It's into day 3 after racking this into a carboy to finish fermentation. There is a good 1.5" of sediment (sludge) at the bottom of the carboy already. This Monday, I plan to rack to a clean carboy and add Kmeta and clarifiers. After 8-10 days, I'll rack again and add the oak cubes.

I'll give it some time to settle down. But if I get a bitter taste after a month aging, chances are pretty good that I'll just go back to adding the grape skins to the bag that's included in the kit and then dropping them into the juice.

 

[jgmann67]

Since I'm home on Valentine's Day with food poisoning, I figured I might as well move the cab. Added KMeta and chitosan. In 8 days, we'll rack again and add 90 g of Hungarian Oak cubes. Final Gravity was just about 0.992.

 

[ceeaton]

Since I'm home on Valentine's Day with food poisoning, I figured I might as well move the cab. Added KMeta and chitosan. In 8 days, we'll rack again and add 90 g of Hungarian Oak cubes. Final Gravity was just about 0.992.

What fine establishment did you pay for the privilege to experience that?

Guess you should PM me with that one, don't want to start a law suit.

Hope you feel better soon. Also hope it wasn't one of the wines I gave you.

 

[Tnuscan]

I believe I just found out the problem with my bad tasting raspberry.

When I removed my Strainer bag, I gave it a super tight twist to remove all I could. Thinking more would be better. I practically wrung it dry. Hence the bad taste. Which I described as Acidic.

Might need to un bottle and let bulk age.

Any comments???

 

[jgmann67]

What fine establishment did you pay for the privilege to experience that?



Guess you should PM me with that one, don't want to start a law suit.



Hope you feel better soon. Also hope it wasn't one of the wines I gave you.

It was a pizza place in the Scranton area. It got everyone sick... And was the only meal we had together that day. Had to be the pizza. Reported the incident to dept. of AG.

 

[joeswine]

in the mix

Like I stated no need for all that the fpac had done it's time remove it, I believe squeezing only releases the bitter acidty that the extraction has left behind, if you taste what's left of the fpac itself you'd see. Adding Mo more acidty to the mix and aminoo acid is not good.

 

[jgmann67]

I believe I just found out the problem with my bad tasting raspberry.



When I removed my Strainer bag, I gave it a super tight twist to remove all I could. Thinking more would be better. I practically wrung it dry. Hence the bad taste. Which I described as Acidic.



Might need to un bottle and let bulk age.



Any comments???

Dave -

If you're getting an acidic taste, check to see if your wine has been properly degassed. Grab a bottle, pour a glass, then put your thumb over the top and give it a good shake. If you get a good "poof" and some fizz on top, you got gas.

Then, just for fun, pour another glass of wine and compare it to the first glass you poured... If you like glass #2 better, you definitely got gas.

 

[Tnuscan]

Dave -

If you're getting an acidic taste, check to see if your wine has been properly degassed. Grab a bottle, pour a glass, then put your thumb over the top and give it a good shake. If you get a good "poof" and some fizz on top, you got gas.

Then, just for fun, pour another glass of wine and compare it to the first glass you poured... If you like glass #2 better, you definitely got gas.

Just got thru doing the test (small hiss ), tastes the same. I degassed it pretty good.
When I made it, and it was in the primary (bucket).
I also pressed on the bag after I pushed it down with the spoon daily, before racking, I strained the, (you know what out of it). The batch before this one (last years, I didn't use the strainer bag, just added fruit, strained with hand strainer and tossed out. This wine (last years) was a hit with All that drank it.

Joe @ joeswine is correct with his statement, when I opened the strainer bag I smelled it, and tasted it, and remember thinking (that's a little nasty).

Another one for** joe** I will make another batch and compare. But this is the only time I Over pressed the fruit.

So glad I came across this .Thanks so much guys!!!

 

[Johnd]

Jim:

Since you're keeping tabs as you go through your Lodi Cab, I'll give you my Lodi update FWIW. This is the second one I did in '15, started 8/1/15, so it's almost 7 months old now. OG 1.090, 1.102 after grape pack added loose. Added 3 tsp tannin and a cup of raisins when I went to glass at 1.002, finished at .994. Used fining but no sorbate, degassed on 8/20. Racked 9/20 and 12/28, and today into a barrel. Had a wine stix in it which I don't detect at all. No sediment at all, very fruity, tannic, and a little hot, but it was at room temperature. Body and mouthful above average for a kit, lingered a little long for me, but nice overall, still pretty green and tight, not integrated or smooth yet. Didn't run any tests on it, so no Ph or TA numbers. Two months in the barrel, then back into glass til it gets bottled in August, if I can make it that long.

 

[jgmann67]

Thanks, John. Great info. I'm waiting to taste this after the Hungarian oak has been in a while. I'm afraid of over oaking.

You added raisin in the secondary/carboy? Very interesting. I have a cup of them staring at me every time I go down the basement.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks, John. Great info. I'm waiting to taste this after the Hungarian oak has been in a while. I'm afraid of over oaking.

You added raisin in the secondary/carboy? Very interesting. I have a cup of them staring at me every time I go down the basement.

I did, just looking to try to increase the body some to compare to the first Lodi I did. As it stands, that comparison won't be fair as the first Lodi never saw a barrel, and as I'm learning, that makes a very substantial contribution.

 

[jgmann67]

Thinking about it, I'm already in finishing. Racking tomorrow and adding the oak. Is it too late?

 

[Johnd]

Thinking about it, I'm already in finishing. Racking tomorrow and adding the oak. Is it too late?

They would've needed to go in while you were still fermenting. I don't think they'd do much good at this point, but maybe someone else has tried it and knows differently........

 

[jgmann67]

Racked into glass with 90g of Hungarian oak. Needed 1.5 L of another cab to top up. Now... We wait.

 

[Johnd]

Racked into glass with 90g of Hungarian oak. Needed 1.5 L of another cab to top up. Now... We wait.

It's a good one, I hope you like it also.

 

[jgmann67]

Here's another common question: the wine is currently sitting on some Hungarian oak cubes. My plan is to age in the carboy for at least 6 months.

Should I rack this off the cubes before I get to the three-months-in-carboy mark (when I planned on racking)?

 

[Johnd]

Here's another common question: the wine is currently sitting on some Hungarian oak cubes. My plan is to age in the carboy for at least 6 months.

Should I rack this off the cubes before I get to the three-months-in-carboy mark (when I planned on racking)?

You'll typically get all of the oak from cubes prior to reaching the first three month rack time. Just taste along the way and rack off of them if the oak gets where you want it. If not, just let em soak til you are ready to rack.

If the oak doesn't get there, add some new cubes to your target carboy and rack onto them for another three month sit with tasting along the way. That's one of the nice advantages of bulk aging, plenty of time to customize your wine just the way you want it.