Ec1118

[sleepyemt]

Hey all,

First off, I cant thank everyone enough for the wealth of information available here. My fermenting background has mainly been home brewing beer, but I have ventured off into doing a few wines.

I need a little help, my wife says our wines have a common flavor in them. We have done a late harvest reisling from a kit (cellar craft, i believe), a mead, and a strawberry rhubarb wine from fruit. Both used EC1118, I'm not 100% sure I taste it. She describes it as a champagne taste.

Has anyone had similar experiences with this yeast? I know it supposed to be a neutral flavor? I don't taste any oxidization or stale flavors that some can describe for this yeast. It had a healthy fermentation, I oxygenated prior to pitching, I don't have my notes in front of me to check on nutrients.

Appreciate any help possible, we will try another strain for future attempts.
Jp

I know I sound crazy asking if champagne yeast gives a champagne flavor....

 

[cpfan]

When you say champagne taste, I immediately think of the CO2 (ie carbonation) that is part of champagne. Perhaps your wines aren't degassed enough?

BTW, champagne yeast is sourced from the Champagne region of France. I'm sure it's used in some champagne, but it's also used for some other wines.

Steve

 

[sour_grapes]

I am going to take an educated guess here. I am guessing your wines are not sufficiently degassed, and/or are just young.

The common denominators (besides ec1118) are: your wines are all young, and you were the winemaster in each case. It is not easy to degas a wine sufficiently. Champagne, of course, contains lots of gas on purpose.

All young wines I have had in my life share a certain taste, from noveau Beaujolais, to Frankfurter Apfelwein, to Austrian heuriger, to my own kit wines. I don't know if it is just the CO2 or something else, but the "young" taste goes away with time.

 

[bkisel]

It could be that your wife has a more discriminating/sophisticated taste than you do. I've made 8 kits this past year and all of them came with EC-1118. I did not detect any common flavor but than I know for certain I'm no connoisseur when it comes to wine tasting.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I don't know if EC-1118 would be the source of any flavor, this comes straight from the Lalvin website:

Relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution are properties of the EC-1118.

.
I can see CO2/degassing as being an issue.

 

[seth8530]

How long were these aged before they were tasted?

 

[sleepyemt]

The late harvest reisling is approximately 2 years old, mead about the same. Now the strawberry wine is young approximately 6 months old. I should add that its only our white wines that carry the flavor, Our italian barbera did not show any of the flavors.

Would carbonation still be an issue at the 2 yr mark?

I thought the yeast was suppose to be neutral as well, kinda why I 'm looking for alternate explanations.

She typically does have a better palate than me, but she's not sure how to describe it...
We will look at the flavor and aroma wheel later to see if anything jumps out..

 

[seth8530]

Very odd, dud you age in carboys? Maybe your wines all have a common off flavour due to common fermentation techniques? Did you ferment the whites at the same temp?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Seth, you might be on to something, what about the cleaner that you used, if you used a fragrant dish soap, the residue could leave an off taste, but I think that I'm reaching fairly far out there.
So to sum it up:
The kit wines had the off taste
The mead had the off taste
The fruit wine had the off taste
Both aged and young wine have the off taste...

I agree with Paul, what are the common denominators?
The wine maker -No offense or disrespect meant, please do not take it that way.
The yeast
Most likely, the Washing and sanitizing practices. (what type of sanitizer and cleaner did you use)
Are the fermenters plastic, were they new or used, some folks get them from bakeries.
I'm drawing a blank.
I look forward to your reply,

Tom

 

[GaDawg]

BTW, champagne yeast is sourced from the Champagne region of France. I'm sure it's used in some champagne, but it's also used for some other wines.

This Prisse de Mousse strain is fast-starting, clean and neutral. EC-1118 is a popular choice because of its consistently strong fermentation characteristics and high alcohol tolerance, up to 18%. The first choice for champagne and sparkling wines. Also good for restarting stuck fermentations. Ferments between 50 and 80 degrees.

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/lalvin-wine-yeasts-5-grams-ec-1118-champagne.html

 

[sleepyemt]

No disrespect taken...

I fermented in buckets bought from Homebrew stores, for fermentation, cleaned with a mild fragrant free soap and sanitized with Starsan.

The mead did take third place last yr.,in a homebrew competition, but she swears the flavor is there...

They were aged in glass carboys and topped up.

I oxygenated with pure O2 and a O2 stone like I do for beer, I notice it doesn't seem to be recommended like it is in brewing, IS that possible?

other than that I followed the directions like normal...

To me the wine taste like the description...
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/cellar-craft-washington-reserve-late-harvest-riesling.html

 

[Pumpkinman]

hmmm......maybe she is just trying to drive you crazy....lol!!!
I'm at a loss here, you have an award winning mead, whatever that taste is, you might want to keep it in the recipe..LOL!

 

[sleepyemt]

So I'm wondering if it is not a water issue... Let me explain. In a side by side of every wine there is a distinct crispness that is the same that is borderline harsh.

I've recently been listening to a brewing podcast on water. In the podcast John Palmer explains that using spring water in extracts can cause a mineral flavor to be pronounced. The reason is the wort before being dehydrated will have minerals, they will stay in the syrup when dehydrated. Then spring water will add the minerals from the water to the beer.
Could this also be happening to the grape concentrate? Thus it is only showing up in the more delicate whites? I don't taste it in the strawberry...

I don't know... I'm speculating at this point, I'll try a different yeast next time...

 

[Winorick]

So I'm wondering if it is not a water issue... Let me explain. In a side by side of every wine there is a distinct crispness that is the same that is borderline harsh.

I've recently been listening to a brewing podcast on water. In the podcast John Palmer explains that using spring water in extracts can cause a mineral flavor to be pronounced. The reason is the wort before being dehydrated will have minerals, they will stay in the syrup when dehydrated. Then spring water will add the minerals from the water to the beer.
Could this also be happening to the grape concentrate? Thus it is only showing up in the more delicate whites? I don't taste it in the strawberry...

I don't know... I'm speculating at this point, I'll try a different yeast next time...

And/or, is it your water? City water with god knows what has been added, well water with too much iron, or softened water with the residual effects of the salt?

 

[Turock]

Well, crispness that is borderline harsh can be due to too much acid. Are you taking PH readings of the must before you begin the ferment? Regarding too much oxygenation--you'd have oxidized wine which, when just slightly oxidized, will tastes like nuts. Severe oxidation tastes metallic.

 

[sleepyemt]

Not sure if it was the water, I bought spring water from the store... I didn't take PH measurements at the time, I just recently bought a PH meter. Some of them were kits, so I added what came with them, as opposed to titrating it to what was needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[Buehler91]

I oxygenated with pure O2 and a O2 stone like I do for beer, I notice it doesn't seem to be recommended like it is in brewing, IS that possible?

could this be the problem?

 

[fabrictodyefor]

Did you use the same ferment bucket for your wine that you used for your beer? My sister and I both make wine, but she also makes beer, and she does not use a beer bucket for her wine. She says that even after sterilization it still has a lingering beer odor. Just another thought?

 

[Pumpkinman]

I brew a lot, and also make a good deal of wine that I ferment in the same buckets that I use to ferment the beer without any issues.
I don't believe that adding oxygen would impart an off flavor, but a crisp bitterness sounds like an acidity issue as Turock stated.