Bland Red Wine - Patience or Intervention?

[joeycannoli]

Morning all!

We are approaching the 3 month mark of our red blend and I have a few questions.

The blend consists of 3 grapes..Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot, and Syrah. We had a little issue with H2S either from the yeast we used (Montrachet) or extended contact with gross lees. We treated with Reduless and eliminated the sulfer smell. Smooth sailing ahead?

We are three months into aging into our stainless steel tanks and notice the wine is very bland and lacking any kind of body. We added some oak chips last week to see if that changes anything.

If we don't see a result from the wood chips is there anything additional we can / should do to improve the wine? Are we expecting too much at this point in the process? I know we still have a few months to go, but would expect more of a body at this point. Any help or recommendations would be appreciated!

Thanks!!

 

[salcoco]

check your ph, most likely wine is not very acidic giving a flabby bland taste level. I would do some bench trials with some tartaric acid. take 10 grams of tartaric dissolve in 100ml of water. make 100ml samples of wine, add 1 ml of solution to first , two mil to next etc. taste test. each ml of solution is equal to one gram per liter of wine. best tasting add to final batch. I would wait util your oak experiment is done and wine is clear.

 

[Johnd]

In addition to checking the pH, the other thing that I would suggest adding, is time. Your wine is still a babe in the woods, and as such, has numerous chemical and physiological changes to undergo prior to reaching adolescence and ultimately, maturity. I have experienced many wines brimming with fruit at early rackings, only to find them nearly devoid of taste a few months later. A few more months down the road, the fruit starts to creep back into the equation, and a year in the bottle, it's a totally different wine. Try to bulk age your wine for a year, taste it regularly, and make notes of your observations, comparing them from tasting to tasting. Give it a chance to develop its flavor profile, you can always make modifications later, once you know what you really have...........

 

[stickman]

Did the wine complete a malolactic fermentation? Was any sulfite added to the wine at any point?

 

[joeycannoli]

Yes, sulfite was added at the end of fermentation before going into the aging tanks (idk of this was the right thing to do but my neighbor who I’m making the wine with insisted).

We did not do a malolactic fermentation. I heard it wasn’t necessary but I don’t mnow a whole lot about it.

 

[JohnT]

One question I have is this.. How long did you have the wine sitting on the skins (maceration)? Limited maceration can produce a flabby wine also.

 

[joeycannoli]

John - maceration was done during fermentation, which lasted 8 or 9 days.

 

[JohnT]

So, it sat on the skins for 8 or 9 days and the wine tastes bland?

 

[joeycannoli]

So, it sat on the skins for 8 or 9 days and the wine tastes bland?

Yeah, it really just lacks much flavor and body at this point, which again might just be because its still young. Perhaps it has something to do with treating it with the reduless? Lack of acidity as salcoco mentioned?

I am thinking the wine is just young and needs time or may lack acidity. My neighbor on the other hand is starting to talk about additives like putting in organic fruit, etc to give it flavor and a body ( i think he is nuts but he is stubborn lol).

 

[Scooter68]

Need to decide who is the decision maker on this wine batch. Unless you have done pH testing - additives are not a wise approach yet.

 

[joeycannoli]

Okay - so I am going to get a PH test kit and check the acidity level as a first step. Anyone have any recommendations on good kit or tool they prefer?

 

[Scooter68]

Get a pH Meter, You can find them starting around $20.00 Keep in mind that ANY ph Meter, regardless of price, requires re-calibration from time to time. Chemical kits (TA test) can be hard to work with the first time or two and with dark wines the can be hard to read. That also holds true for test strips. Since your wine is a dark/red wine. The pH Meter is your best bet. Just remember to get some calibration liquids (Many include an initial set to get started)

Not recommending this one in particular - But it appears to have decent reviews and included the calibration solutions. It's a start point at least. Stated accuracy is good but again only if you calibrate frequently.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GN9E1QA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[JohnT]

Yeah, it really just lacks much flavor and body at this point, which again might just be because its still young. Perhaps it has something to do with treating it with the reduless? Lack of acidity as salcoco mentioned?

I am thinking the wine is just young and needs time or may lack acidity. My neighbor on the other hand is starting to talk about additives like putting in organic fruit, etc to give it flavor and a body ( i think he is nuts but he is stubborn lol).

Yikes! I would not let the neighbor anywhere near the wine! Lock up your cellar and keep it locked!

If you do go the "additives" route, please promise me that you will do small scale bench trials rather than just dump an additive into your wine.



Given the amount of maceration (sitting on the skins), all roads now point to acid.
You could get a PH meter, and I recommend it if you plan to continue with your winemaking.
You could also get an TA acid test kit (usually around $10).

With acid, there are two measurements that are possible. The TA, and the PH.

TA gives you the amount of acid by weight (usually grams per liter). PH gives you the all over acidity (or strength) of that acid.

Either measurement can give you an idea of your wine's acid. Most prefer PH because it does give you a much more complete story.

 

[JohnT]

Sorry for a second post, but one more thing.....

Redueless is a yeast derivative that is naturally impregnated with copper.
I have had to use it in the past (two times) and both times the wine's flavor did not degrade.

In fact, because it is a yeast derivative, I found that more flavor resulted from it's use.

 

[joeycannoli]

Thanks for the helpful information, John! I went ahead and ordered a PH meter so I will take a reading this weekend and report back.

Good to know with the reduless. I was hoping the wine wasn't effected with that treatment. Can't you tell we are having a lot of beginners growing pains? lol

 

[Scooter68]

Don't worry. Most successful wine making hobbists have a few head-slap moments. In fact anyone who says they NEVER had a problem, well.... I doubt it. Some issues are not serious at all some will make you question your sanity and other just frustrate when you seem to find no reason at all for the problem. There are a lot of variables to wine making beginning with the fruit/grapes you use. They vary from plant to plant, place to place and year to year. That's what makes it all interesting. Hence the phrase - "Ah This was a very good year for this wine."

 

[joeycannoli]

Don't worry. Most successful wine making hobbists have a few head-slap moments. In fact anyone who says they NEVER had a problem, well.... I doubt it. Some issues are not serious at all some will make you question your sanity and other just frustrate when you seem to find no reason at all for the problem. There are a lot of variables to wine making beginning with the fruit/grapes you use. They vary from plant to plant, place to place and year to year. That's what makes it all interesting. Hence the phrase - "Ah This was a very good year for this wine."

This may be one of those years where we say it wasn't a good year for this wine... lol. At this point we just want something drinkable.

At least out white wine came out great. We did a blend of Chardonnay, Riesling and Moscato. It has a great balance between dry and sweet. Our only issue with it is that we didn't make more!

Thanks again for all the help everyone! Will let you know what the PH reading says this weekend, but I am thinking based on your comments and some research that the PH is going to be higher than the ideal 3-4.

 

[ibglowin]

Wait you have a SS Tank, a Plate Filter but no pH meter?????

BTW, wood chips are the cheapest possible oak adjunct on the market. The flavor imparted is equivalent to what you paid for it. Always go with the highest quality WOOD (not chips) you can afford. Oak staves are the best and should be your first choice then oak beans or cubes as a cheaper alternative. Stay away from chips unless your using them in your BBQ smoker!

 

[joeycannoli]

Wait you have a SS Tank, a Plate Filter but no pH meter?????

BTW, wood chips are the cheapest possible oak adjunct on the market. The flavor imparted is equivalent to what you paid for it. Always go with the highest quality WOOD (not chips) you can afford. Oak staves are the best and should be your first choice then oak beans or cubes as a cheaper alternative. Stay away from chips unless your using them in your BBQ smoker!

Thanks for the heads up! Embarrassingly, yes, we have those pieces of equipment but no ph meter. Don't worry, we have one coming in the mail! Slowly getting all the essentials.

You guys have recommendations on other must-have items for wine making?

 

[JohnT]

hydrometer,
good wine thief,
good PUMP
vacuum bottle filler