Ants good or bad?

[Handy Andy]

I have noticed on a couple of my vines some of the leaves are being eaten, and curling up.

There are small numbers of ants running up and down all my vines, but on these damaged vines on investigation the ants appear to have nests in the roots.

Could they be attacking the roots of my vines, causing the leaves to curl, or farming aphids or some other creature, which is damaging my vines.

If so how do I treat the problem. I have not noticed any aphids on the leaves, and as yet have not dug into the roots to look for aphids.

Should I kill the ants, or might they be beneficial

 

[Tim3]

As you seem to know there’s an incredibly complex ecosystem around your vines. As far as I’m aware, though, ants aren’t interested in eating leaves and I haven’t heard of them being a problem in vineyard management. I wonder if they’re actually eating another bug that is eating your leaves. I usually get a ton of caterpillars (skeletonizers) that destroy entire shoots in a day. For me the birds do a great job cleaning those until I need to net my vines, after which I’ll spray them with soapy water instead. Not sure if the same would work with ants.

 

[Handy Andy]

I have little ants and big ants. I dont think they are leaf eater ants.

I use 100:1 ratio of water to soap and cooking oil on my fruit trees against aphids. I havent noticed aphids on my vines as yet. I understand Soap and Oil works on all insects good and bad. I have tried using this on my affected vines last week, and they appear to be doing better, but still I can see no aphids on these plants.

If its not the ants, attacking the roots and eating leaves, what else can it be? I have not noticed caterpillars on the leaves.

I am going to dig up a affected vine and inspect the roots for maggots or other insects.

Edit

OK Ive dug up a vine and noticed nothing out of the ordinary until something white moved, then something else. There are little white maggots less than 6mm or 1/4inch long and highly mobile, under a magnifying glass they have two antennae on their heads. DO I HAVE A PROBLEM ??

 

[stickman]

Post a photo. Do they look like this?

 

[Scooter68]

Accurate posting will lead to more and better responses in most cases.

Here's a part of this site Just for this sort of topic: Grape Growing & Vineyard Forum

 

[Handy Andy]

Post a photo. Do they look like this?

View attachment 73041

Nope the maggot like creatures are very small white and skinny.

I tried taking a photo yesterday, but the maggots are very small. To see the antennae I held a magnifying glass over them. The antennae were not visible without magnification.

 

[Handy Andy]

When it stops raining I will go and take some photos of the leaves affected.

They are not eaten around the edges, which has made suspect the problem might not be ants. I examined some leaves on nearby plants and notice in the location where the plants look as though they have been eaten, the healthy leaves are developing a none even surface. None of the photos I have looked at ref mildews look like these.

 

[Handy Andy]

My initial concern was a few leaves appeared to be being eaten by something, lots of leaves now appear to be changing colour. I have been spraying against downy mildew since just before the buds burst into life, this season, due to having a problem last year with downy mildew. With the leaves changing colour, could this be powdery mildew, or nutrient deficiency.

Whilst photographing this morning, I noticed a very light white covering on the backs of one or two leaves.

 

[Handy Andy]

https://www.agr.gc.ca/eng/agricultu...r-diseases-of-grapes/?id=1544449361476#damage
The leaves that looked eaten might be the end of sporulation from powdery mildew. I am going to spray for both powdery mildew and downy mildew when it stops raining long enough. I am also going to add a liquid fertilizer for the leaves.

I dont think the ants are the cause of the problem.