Wine Newbie - Advanced Homebrewer

[deckardjk]

I've been all-grain homebrewing for quite some time. My sanitization skills are honed in. I have a fermentation chamber, and plenty of carboys. I've been reading a bunch of information on kits and I'm looking for some suggestions/feedback before I dive in.

I'm leaning towards the RJS Winemakers Trio Red kit or maybe their Cabernet Shiraz.

The kit comes with the following:
Package 1: Bentonite
Package 2: Potassium Metabisulphite & Potassium Sorbate
Package D1: Kieselsol
Package D2: Chitosan
Package: Pectinase

A few instruction "tweaks" I'd like to make. Am I making any major mistakes?

Omit Kieselsol/Chitosan - I'm not in a rush for it to clear. I was still thinking about using the Bentonite.

Omit potassium sorbate - It seems like this is only to avoid spoilage due to sanitization issues. I'd plan to add the Potassium Metabisulphite from my own package.

Add yeast nutrient such as Wyeast's product.

Letting it bulk age longer than suggested. I'm not in a rush - and ommiting some clarifying agents.

Since I have the fermentation chamber - I'm thinking about setting it in the low/mid 60s for ambient temperature during primary assuming that the wine itself would be a touch warmer during primary fermentation similar to beer.

Am I making any major mistakes? Any suggestions from anyone who homebrews and is familiar with that process?

Thank you.

 

[ibglowin]

Welcome to WMT!

Your plan sounds good with a couple of thoughts.

Your wine will clear on its own without the Kieselsol/Chitosan. Adding the Bentonite still is a good idea. Kit wines are not as easy to clear sometimes as wines made from fresh grapes. The Bentonite will assist.
You can leave out the Sorbate as long as it ferments to dry and you don't backsweeten etc.
Kits come with an adequate amount of yeast nutrient already added in. You should not need any extra.
Bulk aging is a great thing as the longer you bulk age the more stable the wine becomes and less chance you have of bottling a fizzy wine or a wine that drops more sediment over time.
For reds you want a warmer fermentation so any room temp in the 70's will be better. Whites can be fermented cooler.
Not sure about the pectinase package but if it comes with one, there is a reason so you should probably add as directed.
If you bulk age longer than 90 days you should probably add a small "top up" dose of Sulfite. Like 1/8 tsp.

Good luck and again welcome!

 

[deckardjk]

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.

Regarding the pectinase... now that I look over the instructions for the kit online it is kind of generic. I'll see what is in the box once I pick it up later today.

Also... I didn't state it... but I'm willing to spend a couple bucks on product(s) or ingredient(s) that will make the over all experience better.

 

[Boatboy24]

Also... I didn't state it... but I'm willing to spend a couple bucks on product(s) or ingredient(s) that will make the over all experience better.

IMHO, kits benefit greatly from added tannin, oak and barrel aging. Tannin and oak would the "a couple bucks". A barrel? That's a couple hundred.

 

[deckardjk]

IMHO, kits benefit greatly from added tannin, oak and barrel aging. Tannin and oak would the "a couple bucks". A barrel? That's a couple hundred.

I have an ounce of medium toast Hungarian oak cubes. I was thinking about using those... or perhaps buying more or something else once I read up a little more. Any suggestions for time/type if I did go with the RJS kits mentioned? Are you suggesting adding both tannin and putting it on oak?

Not in the market for a barrel at the moment but that isn't out of the question years down the road. I'm a sour beer brewer as well so once a barrel reached the end of its useful life in winemaking it would be perfect for a sour beer.

 

[ibglowin]

Tannin and oak are two different animals. Tannins (powered) even though they get added to a kit seem to be lacking somewhat so many winemakers will add a bit more to make it age a bit slower and cellar a bit longer, especially a top tier kit.

Also doing a yeast swap is quite common as most kits tend to come with a good but often safe (and maybe a little boring) yeast EC1118. Its the Terminator of yeast as it will ferment to dry under the worst conditions or lack of care or oversight thus making it perfect for beginning winemakers. I would recommend that after you have a few kits under your "wine" belt and understand the process and what is and looks right and normal and what is not normal.

 

[heatherd]

I've been all-grain homebrewing for quite some time. My sanitization skills are honed in. I have a fermentation chamber, and plenty of carboys. I've been reading a bunch of information on kits and I'm looking for some suggestions/feedback before I dive in.

I'm leaning towards the RJS Winemakers Trio Red kit or maybe their Cabernet Shiraz.

The kit comes with the following:
Package 1: Bentonite
Package 2: Potassium Metabisulphite & Potassium Sorbate
Package D1: Kieselsol
Package D2: Chitosan
Package: Pectinase

A few instruction "tweaks" I'd like to make. Am I making any major mistakes?

Omit Kieselsol/Chitosan - I'm not in a rush for it to clear. I was still thinking about using the Bentonite.

Omit potassium sorbate - It seems like this is only to avoid spoilage due to sanitization issues. I'd plan to add the Potassium Metabisulphite from my own package.

Add yeast nutrient such as Wyeast's product.

Letting it bulk age longer than suggested. I'm not in a rush - and ommiting some clarifying agents.

Since I have the fermentation chamber - I'm thinking about setting it in the low/mid 60s for ambient temperature during primary assuming that the wine itself would be a touch warmer during primary fermentation similar to beer.

Am I making any major mistakes? Any suggestions from anyone who homebrews and is familiar with that process?

Thank you.

Either of the kits you mentioned would be good first tries.

I agree with the other folks in suggestions for adding tannin powder and oak.

Sounds like you are already factoring extra time, which is the key ingredient for making good wine. Reds will need a year + to be good.

 

[deckardjk]

Thanks again, all. I'll probably get the Winemakers Trio kit fermenting tomorrow. It came with all of the contents listed including the pectinase so I will add that. I'll omit the oak powder it came with though.

I'll just have to make a decision on how many oak cubes and how much tannin powder to add. My understanding is I can do both of those in a secondary fermentation vessel.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'll omit the oak powder it came with though.

Don't. Oak in the primary has its purpose. You won't get much (if any) flavor from it, but the tannins will add a lot.

 

[deckardjk]

Don't. Oak in the primary has its purpose. You won't get much (if any) flavor from it, but the tannins will add a lot.

Thanks... so here is my general plan for additions/omissions...

Working off of - http://www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/a.../CCWS_Instructions_Eng_v41111111111111111.pdf

Primary ferment -

Add Bentonite (as instructed)
Add Juice (as instructed)
Add Oak Powder from packets. (as instructed)
Add skins (as instructed)
Pitch yeast (as instructed)

Secondary -

Add Pectinase (as instructed)

Tertiary -

Add Potassium Metabisulphite (as instructed)
Add Oak Cubes - To taste (discussed here)
Add Tannin Powder - To Taste (discussed here)

Add Potassium Metabisulphite as needed for bulk aging (discussed here)

Omitting Packets:
Potassium Sorbate
Kieselsol
Chitosan

 

[menerdari]

Sounds like your plan is solid.
I just want to add a comment on something you said earlier on oak barrels.
They do not run out of uses for wine making. Once a barrel becomes neutral it is still great for bulk aging.
It no longer adds its own flavor but does offer gas exchange that effects some wines positively.

 

[limulus]

To the OP, I am also a very new wine maker and long time brewer (20yrs). I bought two Grapes to Glass kits from Midwest. It included two cases of new bottles, corks and RJS Grand Cru kits for $99. I have a lot of high-tech brewing equipment including a commercial glycol chiller. I am extremely anal when it comes to sanitation and the lack of a boil with wine just didn't sit well with me, but I have accepted it The initial process for making wine is a lot quicker but overall it takes a lot longer and unlike beer, aging it is important. My next kit or two, or twelve will be higher end and include grape skins. Then, I may just buy a press and order from Brehm. I have had to go out and buy carboys again for wine. I got rid of those years ago and went all stainless. I still use stainless for my wine primary and also a Speidel fermenter but reluctantly, I have bought some 3 and 6-gallon carboys for long term aging.

I am 100% novice with wine but I did use the Kieselsol/Chitosan that came with my kit and it was crystal clear the next morning. Now, I may have total crap in those bottles of Chardonnay but I'm hoping in a few months, it will be drinkable. I prefer red anyway...this is for my wife