swillologist
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2007
- Messages
- 567
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks everyone. I'm planning on hanging as tough as I can. We plan on licking this thing and getting back to spoiling the grand kids.
WINE GARDEN
- Thread starter NorthernWinos
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
OMG....I went out to the Wine Garden to have a look...Most of the grapes look like they had never been trimmed, sprawling vines all across the ground...I thought I had everything looking pretty good 3+ weeks ago, but that was then...and this is now.
I pulled all the suckers from the bases of the vines, that sure improved the over all appearance. My beautiful little clusters of grapes are hidden deep beneath thick rampant foliage....I did pull a few canes from up here too, probably not the thing to do. When do we 'canopy prune'????
The old Frontenac vine hardly has any clusters, perhaps I pruned too severely this spring and the constant weeping weakened the vine...OR...last winter was just too hard on a fairly tender vine for this zone...I lay down the other hardy to -30F* vines...so maybe this variety is not hardy enough to hang on the wires...Will give it another year and at that time maybe the new row will be removed as well.
The newly planted little fruit bushes are growing like crazy.
The Juneberries are showing fungus and I hope I can salvage some of them if I spray fungicide today...
The Elderberry bushes are huge, but still haven't bloomed, they died to the ground last winter. Do see folks growing them nearby, so will continue to have hope for them, they sure are an attractive plant.
Raspberries are beginning to ripen, so am anxious to start picking and freezing them for the wine effort.
I gave the strawberries to a neighbor, she comes every few days and picks every single berry...She wants to grow her own now. We have found that we like other wines more than strawberry, tho the Burgundy/Strawberry is great....Found a little less fruit and more grape in the blend more to our liking, so didn't freeze as many berries as other years, sill have quarts of juice left from last year.
So, will take the fruits we want, juice them up and continue making wines...with our consumption less for awhile, the wines can age more and improve....
Life is Good!!!!
I pulled all the suckers from the bases of the vines, that sure improved the over all appearance. My beautiful little clusters of grapes are hidden deep beneath thick rampant foliage....I did pull a few canes from up here too, probably not the thing to do. When do we 'canopy prune'????
The old Frontenac vine hardly has any clusters, perhaps I pruned too severely this spring and the constant weeping weakened the vine...OR...last winter was just too hard on a fairly tender vine for this zone...I lay down the other hardy to -30F* vines...so maybe this variety is not hardy enough to hang on the wires...Will give it another year and at that time maybe the new row will be removed as well.
The newly planted little fruit bushes are growing like crazy.
The Juneberries are showing fungus and I hope I can salvage some of them if I spray fungicide today...
The Elderberry bushes are huge, but still haven't bloomed, they died to the ground last winter. Do see folks growing them nearby, so will continue to have hope for them, they sure are an attractive plant.
Raspberries are beginning to ripen, so am anxious to start picking and freezing them for the wine effort.
I gave the strawberries to a neighbor, she comes every few days and picks every single berry...She wants to grow her own now. We have found that we like other wines more than strawberry, tho the Burgundy/Strawberry is great....Found a little less fruit and more grape in the blend more to our liking, so didn't freeze as many berries as other years, sill have quarts of juice left from last year.
So, will take the fruits we want, juice them up and continue making wines...with our consumption less for awhile, the wines can age more and improve....
Life is Good!!!!
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
NW you can canopy thin any time now. The fruit has probably well set by now and if it is getting too thick, you can thin undesireable shoots and get rid of some of the leaves. The fruit are tolerant of the sun this time of year, but if too many leaves are removed too late they can burn on you.
As a side note, I picked a quart of Black Currants yesterday. They are so thick that I put the bascket underneath a cluster and just roll the black ones to fall in the basket. They clean from the leaves and trash pretty easily since they sink and the leaves float in water. How are yours coming along NW?
Joan you can pull the shoots off when they are young and tender. A bit later you need to clip them off after they start lignifying.
As a side note, I picked a quart of Black Currants yesterday. They are so thick that I put the bascket underneath a cluster and just roll the black ones to fall in the basket. They clean from the leaves and trash pretty easily since they sink and the leaves float in water. How are yours coming along NW?
Joan you can pull the shoots off when they are young and tender. A bit later you need to clip them off after they start lignifying.
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
The Wine Garden is coming along....
Juneberries are beginning to ripen, tho there seems to be less fruit than last year...Some of the little plants I set out this spring even have a few berries...
The little bushes of semi-native fruits that got set out last spring are growing great....
The Black Currants are growing and there are only a few berries out there. The little cuttings I grew over winter under lights are alive and putting on new leaves. The Red Currants, Gooseberries and others are growing and perhaps next year will produce more....this year there is only a taste of fruit out there.
The grapes are filling nicely and today I plan on thinning out much of the overgrowth....
I severely pruned back two older very thick woody vines this spring, a semi-hardy Frontenac and a very hardy King of the North...they both weeped from the woody ends and failed to produce much fruit....but the leaves are huge...I am just letting these vines alone this summer and hope they recover and produce next year...
So it goes in the Wine Garden....
Edited by: Northern Winos
Juneberries are beginning to ripen, tho there seems to be less fruit than last year...Some of the little plants I set out this spring even have a few berries...
The little bushes of semi-native fruits that got set out last spring are growing great....
The Black Currants are growing and there are only a few berries out there. The little cuttings I grew over winter under lights are alive and putting on new leaves. The Red Currants, Gooseberries and others are growing and perhaps next year will produce more....this year there is only a taste of fruit out there.
The grapes are filling nicely and today I plan on thinning out much of the overgrowth....
I severely pruned back two older very thick woody vines this spring, a semi-hardy Frontenac and a very hardy King of the North...they both weeped from the woody ends and failed to produce much fruit....but the leaves are huge...I am just letting these vines alone this summer and hope they recover and produce next year...
So it goes in the Wine Garden....
Edited by: Northern Winos
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
Those all look like they are doing well NW. Love the large leaves. My Buffalo and Alden and Catawba all have leaves like those- makes you want to make some kind of a wrap with them.
I wish you had some of the Titania Black Currants. I have 10 Prince Consorts and had 3 currants on them total. They are two feet high and sickly looking overall. I have 5 Titania(the ones ties to the wires to try to hold upright) and they are about 4 feet tall. They have I estimate 2 or 3 quarts on each bush in their second year. The objectionable smells are all but gone now and they are starting to ripen- got a quart off them yesterday and canget another couple quarts in a day or so. I got them from St. Lawrence Nursery and will probably replace the Consort when I start some more from cuttings. The titania have about 25 shoots per bush already, so I will need to prune some shoots out theis winter and can root some them. If you are feeling up to it when I get some rooted I would love to send you a few. Let me know.
I wish you had some of the Titania Black Currants. I have 10 Prince Consorts and had 3 currants on them total. They are two feet high and sickly looking overall. I have 5 Titania(the ones ties to the wires to try to hold upright) and they are about 4 feet tall. They have I estimate 2 or 3 quarts on each bush in their second year. The objectionable smells are all but gone now and they are starting to ripen- got a quart off them yesterday and canget another couple quarts in a day or so. I got them from St. Lawrence Nursery and will probably replace the Consort when I start some more from cuttings. The titania have about 25 shoots per bush already, so I will need to prune some shoots out theis winter and can root some them. If you are feeling up to it when I get some rooted I would love to send you a few. Let me know.
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
After trimming the grapes they sure look a bit more respectable, now I just have to haul off all those trimmings to the compost pile...will get to that...Job security.
Today we had a slight shower this morning, then I went out and did spray with copper....There doesn't seem to be any signs of disease, we have had plenty of air movement and with the extra foliage gone they should be okay.
I sprayed the Juneberries with the copper too...I think it is a little late for them as the crop looks doomed to cedar-apple rust....at least I think that's what it is....I sprayed better last year and did get a small crop...Now we are getting sprinkles again, so will probably loose my spray job.
So with a spary program like many things...You Snooze-You Loose.
The apples are looking good...won't be a bumper crop, but have lots of juice left from last year....
So, one year you seem to get a bumper crop and stock the larder, the next you get by with the bounty allowed by nature.
Edited by: Northern Winos
Today we had a slight shower this morning, then I went out and did spray with copper....There doesn't seem to be any signs of disease, we have had plenty of air movement and with the extra foliage gone they should be okay.
I sprayed the Juneberries with the copper too...I think it is a little late for them as the crop looks doomed to cedar-apple rust....at least I think that's what it is....I sprayed better last year and did get a small crop...Now we are getting sprinkles again, so will probably loose my spray job.
So with a spary program like many things...You Snooze-You Loose.
The apples are looking good...won't be a bumper crop, but have lots of juice left from last year....
So, one year you seem to get a bumper crop and stock the larder, the next you get by with the bounty allowed by nature.
Edited by: Northern Winos
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
The grapes are looking better all the time NW! What variety is that one?
I will comment that you could have left the shoots longer to ripen the fruit better or so they say. I only see a few leaves past the clusters. From what I have heard and read, you should leave about 12-15 past the cluster to ripen them fully. It is early enough that they will push some laterals and ripen them that way, but the problem is that makes the canopy more dense. What is a person to do? Regardless, I'm sure they will ripen fine there anyways. Just letting you know what the"experts say"
The apples look good even if not a bumper crop. Sometimes you get a bigger harvest with fewer apples because they average bigger. Sure you will get a good crop by the looks.
I don't know about the others.................
Keep it up!
I will comment that you could have left the shoots longer to ripen the fruit better or so they say. I only see a few leaves past the clusters. From what I have heard and read, you should leave about 12-15 past the cluster to ripen them fully. It is early enough that they will push some laterals and ripen them that way, but the problem is that makes the canopy more dense. What is a person to do? Regardless, I'm sure they will ripen fine there anyways. Just letting you know what the"experts say"
The apples look good even if not a bumper crop. Sometimes you get a bigger harvest with fewer apples because they average bigger. Sure you will get a good crop by the looks.
I don't know about the others.................
Keep it up!
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
Appleman...these would be Valiant Grapes...
<div ="h1-left2"><h1>Valiant Grape Details</span></h1>
This
red wine producing grape, reportedly cold-hardy to -70 F (approx. -52
C), has lived up to its name in some harsh winter conditions. Valiant
is grown in South Dakota, Minnesota, and other parts of the continental
Midwest. Valiant is also grown in the Canadian prairie provinces, where
reportedly it does not require protection from the elements, wintering
above ground instead of the usual 'hilling-up' required for most
varieties subjected to similar conditions. The vine was developed by
Dr. Ron Peterson at South Dakota State University from a Fredonia x
Wild Montana (Vitis riparia) cross. It is mostly used in blends, but is
also made into jelly, and consumed as a table grape. Ripening about
three weeks prior to Concord, it typically produces grapes with low
acid levels and high sugars</font> </span>
We have been making breakfast juice with this grape for years....then once we started making wine thought we'd try it. I makes a pretty good wine but always drops 'wine-diamonds'.....It even drops wine diamonds in our mason jars of breakfast juices...so it is high in some sort of acid...even tho it claims to be low in acids in the above description...
This variety needs a good spray program, I was plagued with downy mildew and black rot in past years....Then I cleaned up my act, removed the mulch from around those rows, removed all the mummies and work up the soil underneath the vines....it sure made a huge difference....Some years it looks like I really wouldn't need to spray, but try to get it done.
Guess I did roach off too many leaves....Know for sure they will grow more, they are a very aggressive grower....They should ripen okay...last year I did keep checking the Brix and actually forget what they got to, I think it was in the high teens...18* Brix or some where near that. Looks like there will be good yeild on some of the mid aged vines....the youngest vines should produce well next year.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
I thought it was probably you Valiant in the picture. They are a nice consisten producer. The years when they stay nice and clean is probably because you do keep up with the spray program. It's when you say that they are nice and clean and stop spraying that you can get into trouble.
How's therapy coming? You seem to be picking up on the work load... don't overdo it. That's whatthe hubbyis for
How's therapy coming? You seem to be picking up on the work load... don't overdo it. That's whatthe hubbyis for
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
Beautiful cool morning today so I went out to survey the Wine Garden...upon looking at the younger Valiant Vines I found a few clusters with some sort of MOLD!!!!! WOULD THIS BE POWDERY MILDEW?????</font>
</font></font>
I picked all the clusters I could see that were infected and did another good spraying.
The Raspberries are finally ripening and those I will pick and freeze for the "Wine Effort'...we like any wine with raspberries in it......Not as many berries as last year and wonder if they warrant installing the bird netting...??? Will think that over.
Before picking I had to remove all the suckers and canes that were growing outside the catch wires....Have 2 huge piles of canes to haul to the compost pile. Job security.
The Sandcherries are filling nicely, should be a good crop of those.
I even had enough energy today to wash a few windows on the sun porch...The early morning sun is very unforgiving with dirty windows... Spring dust storms, birds hitting the windows and leaving dust angels as well as dog kisses on the patio door are all history...I feel so much better to have that chore done.....Life is Good......Except for that mold on the grapes!!!!
</font></font>
</font></font>
I picked all the clusters I could see that were infected and did another good spraying.
The Raspberries are finally ripening and those I will pick and freeze for the "Wine Effort'...we like any wine with raspberries in it......Not as many berries as last year and wonder if they warrant installing the bird netting...??? Will think that over.
Before picking I had to remove all the suckers and canes that were growing outside the catch wires....Have 2 huge piles of canes to haul to the compost pile. Job security.
The Sandcherries are filling nicely, should be a good crop of those.
I even had enough energy today to wash a few windows on the sun porch...The early morning sun is very unforgiving with dirty windows... Spring dust storms, birds hitting the windows and leaving dust angels as well as dog kisses on the patio door are all history...I feel so much better to have that chore done.....Life is Good......Except for that mold on the grapes!!!!
</font></font>
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
From here it looks more like downey mildew. I found some today also at Willsboro in Mars table grapes. I applied ProPhyte which is a type of phosphoric acid- a fertilizer. It is supposed to knock it out. I hope so but within an hour of applying it we had a stream of heavy thunderstorms with in excess of an inch of rain. Not sure it will work. I am following up very soon with a complete spray. You could try some baking soda in water and sprayed on them to the point of drenching. A few tablespoons per gallon is sometimes effective.
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
Went out to pick the raspberries and have a look at the rest of the little Wine Garden.....
I had left the Juneberries for the birds, complete with fungus...and they have obliged and have pretty much cleaned off the bushes.
The Sandcherries are filling out, not as many as last year, but will be enough for a batch of wine, even some fruit on the little bushes I set out last year...Checked the inventory of juices, enough juice in jars left from last year for a batch of wine as well....
Looked inside the little Consort Black Currant bushes and there were a few clusters of small, hard fruit....
Then I looked inside the Ben Sarek bush and there were some berries in there too...about 3 times the size of the Consort...Big plump berries...[I forgot to taste them]
Now I'm wondering which plants I made cuttings off of....Guess I'll know in a couple years and will replace some with the larger fruiting variety.
I noticed some funky leaves on some of my baby plants....doesn't seem to affect them, just looks strange...
Appleman...can you spare an inch of rain????
We went to picnic this evening and had some sprinkles...everyone just stayed sitting out in it...felt pretty good.
Edited by: Northern Winos
I had left the Juneberries for the birds, complete with fungus...and they have obliged and have pretty much cleaned off the bushes.
The Sandcherries are filling out, not as many as last year, but will be enough for a batch of wine, even some fruit on the little bushes I set out last year...Checked the inventory of juices, enough juice in jars left from last year for a batch of wine as well....
Looked inside the little Consort Black Currant bushes and there were a few clusters of small, hard fruit....
Then I looked inside the Ben Sarek bush and there were some berries in there too...about 3 times the size of the Consort...Big plump berries...[I forgot to taste them]
Now I'm wondering which plants I made cuttings off of....Guess I'll know in a couple years and will replace some with the larger fruiting variety.
I noticed some funky leaves on some of my baby plants....doesn't seem to affect them, just looks strange...
Appleman...can you spare an inch of rain????
We went to picnic this evening and had some sprinkles...everyone just stayed sitting out in it...felt pretty good.
Edited by: Northern Winos
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
They all look great NW. I picked Black Currants yesterday and got about 6 pounds more. They have produced about 3 pounds per bush so far. Nice big black ones like the Ben Serek.
I will gladly send you some rain. May you be blessed with one half our rainfall - we don't want it. It is raining steady now- like it was supposed to all day. I feel blessed because it held off. We were expecting 2-5 inches MORE rain through tomorrow!
I will gladly send you some rain. May you be blessed with one half our rainfall - we don't want it. It is raining steady now- like it was supposed to all day. I feel blessed because it held off. We were expecting 2-5 inches MORE rain through tomorrow!
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
Being as we both like any wine with Raspberries in it....we both have been picking the raspberries.....Get about this many everyday...
I love picking raspberries...or any berries...almost a religious experience.
I picked some of the black currants....they are sure hidden inside the plants...safe from the birds....Or...maybe they are just tucked in because the plants are so young.
Clockwise....Red Lake...Ben Sarek....Consort.
Will for sure be making more Ben Sarek cuttings this fall, they are sweet and juicy. Those tiny Red lake red currants sure have a nice crisp flavor and should make a nice wine. I made some cuttings last summer and set them out before freeze up and they are all growing....But wonder if 10 plants will ever produce enough for a batch of wine as the berries are so tiny...?
Been watching the grapes...seems to be a bit more Downy Mildew, but just small areas....should I remove the infected berries????
Now I see these odd pink berries...they are not ripening...wonder if it is a new fungus out there?????
I am going to spray on Wed. with some baking soda or something else....would have done it today, but we might get some rain.
I love picking raspberries...or any berries...almost a religious experience.
I picked some of the black currants....they are sure hidden inside the plants...safe from the birds....Or...maybe they are just tucked in because the plants are so young.
Clockwise....Red Lake...Ben Sarek....Consort.
Will for sure be making more Ben Sarek cuttings this fall, they are sweet and juicy. Those tiny Red lake red currants sure have a nice crisp flavor and should make a nice wine. I made some cuttings last summer and set them out before freeze up and they are all growing....But wonder if 10 plants will ever produce enough for a batch of wine as the berries are so tiny...?
Been watching the grapes...seems to be a bit more Downy Mildew, but just small areas....should I remove the infected berries????
Now I see these odd pink berries...they are not ripening...wonder if it is a new fungus out there?????
I am going to spray on Wed. with some baking soda or something else....would have done it today, but we might get some rain.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2005
- Messages
- 15,188
- Reaction score
- 1,211
Nice buckets of Raspberries there NW. Those picked every day for a while will give you some delicious wine mixtures. Yummmmmmm.
Interesting show of currants there too. I have a couple bushes of the red ones but they don't do much here in the sand. Maybe I should move them. I have enough black currants now for about a 6 gallon carboy in their second year- and that is off the 5 Titania. They are interesting- not only do they get bushier, but some of the outer branches droop to the ground and curl back up. I have assisted a few of these and put some soil over them where they contact the ground. I expect them to root and then I will just cut them out with the shovel and move over some.
Interesting phenomenon with the pink grapes- I don't have a clue! I would tend to pick off the downey infected berries when they are dry so you don't spread it more. It'd hsrd to keep ahead of disease over here this year. Best of luck to you.
Interesting show of currants there too. I have a couple bushes of the red ones but they don't do much here in the sand. Maybe I should move them. I have enough black currants now for about a 6 gallon carboy in their second year- and that is off the 5 Titania. They are interesting- not only do they get bushier, but some of the outer branches droop to the ground and curl back up. I have assisted a few of these and put some soil over them where they contact the ground. I expect them to root and then I will just cut them out with the shovel and move over some.
Interesting phenomenon with the pink grapes- I don't have a clue! I would tend to pick off the downey infected berries when they are dry so you don't spread it more. It'd hsrd to keep ahead of disease over here this year. Best of luck to you.
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
It's so dry here that I can't understand where the mildew came from, must be just from the humidity....plus my lax spray program.
The roses are getting mildew too....so it must be in the air.
The roses are getting mildew too....so it must be in the air.
NorthernWinos
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2005
- Messages
- 5,933
- Reaction score
- 8
I went out this AM and realized I better get spraying...So I gave the grape clusters a good spraying of Baking Soda and a fungicide mix....
Those cute pink grapes turned into a nasty fungus....
I wonder...should I remove all the clusters of infected grapes...with the pink and white molds???? Or...see it the sprays tame mildews and fungus?????
Now with all the soda residue it's hard to tell it from some of the molds. The Beta grapes are usually pretty disease resistant, but I did see a few infected berries. Their clusters are larger and looser. They are a cross between the Wild Montana X Concord.
I see even the lilacs have mold on their leaves....as well as some of the roses...even with our very dry conditions there must be enough humidity to grow molds.
The rows that I had severely trimmed are growing new shoots...makes it hard to spray. That is a wire cage type rabbit trap between the rows...I saw a rabbit there the other day and that night Jim set the trap...he eliminated the culprit yesterday AM.
The Frontenac and King of the North that struggled to come out of dormancy have put on lots of growth...only a few clusters inside that mess....I am going to trim that row up soon...It's gone wild with growth.
The new row of Frontenac are growing and hopefully they will prove to be hardy and productive...only time will tell...and they may all have to be removed and replace with something that is hardier than -30*F.
Sucks being so limited to what we can grow...but am greatfull for the fruits we can get.
Edited by: Northern Winos
Those cute pink grapes turned into a nasty fungus....
I wonder...should I remove all the clusters of infected grapes...with the pink and white molds???? Or...see it the sprays tame mildews and fungus?????
Now with all the soda residue it's hard to tell it from some of the molds. The Beta grapes are usually pretty disease resistant, but I did see a few infected berries. Their clusters are larger and looser. They are a cross between the Wild Montana X Concord.
I see even the lilacs have mold on their leaves....as well as some of the roses...even with our very dry conditions there must be enough humidity to grow molds.
The rows that I had severely trimmed are growing new shoots...makes it hard to spray. That is a wire cage type rabbit trap between the rows...I saw a rabbit there the other day and that night Jim set the trap...he eliminated the culprit yesterday AM.
The Frontenac and King of the North that struggled to come out of dormancy have put on lots of growth...only a few clusters inside that mess....I am going to trim that row up soon...It's gone wild with growth.
The new row of Frontenac are growing and hopefully they will prove to be hardy and productive...only time will tell...and they may all have to be removed and replace with something that is hardier than -30*F.
Sucks being so limited to what we can grow...but am greatfull for the fruits we can get.
Edited by: Northern Winos
