What to do with a batch that won't go?

[Ebonheart]

Well, I'm about at the end of my journey with batch of Niagara. After a week and a half of trying, including 3 packets of yeast over a 7 day period, 10 days at 65-70 degrees, a bucket transfer, vigorous stirring daily, and a 2 day starter gallon of yeast that was split 50% juice and 50% sugar water, whatever was in this Niagara has defeated every chance at getting a ferment going. The stuff is clear again a day after a happy gallon of bubbling starter was added! My aquaintance that owns a small winery is having similar problems with his 40 gallon batch. He suggested the starter yeast, but I either don't have the patience during the weekdays for getting one going, or it didn't take once added to the rest of the juice.

Now what shall I do with 5 gallons of Niagara that won't ferment? It's been opened about 12 days now, and is once again clear all the way to the bottom. I'm thinking of just dropping it into a carboy with a water filled airlock and placing it in cold place. Maybe the sulfer ppm (?) drops to a point where the fermentation finally begins, but who knows?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Which yeast have you tried? There are yeast that are recommended for restarting a stuck fermentation, I would try EC-1118, or better yet UvaFerm 43 "Notable for its powerful ability to restart stuck or sluggish fermentations due to high alcohol tolerance (18%+ v/v) and low relative nitrogen needs." you can find that in small packages at www.morewinemaking.com.

 

[Turock]

What is the SG? Any off odors or taste?

It's important to increase the biomass when restarting a stuck ferment. So you should use either Go-Ferm or GO-Ferm Protect as a rehydrating nutrient. If residual sugars are high, you should also add Fermaid K directly to the stuck ferment.

Also, adding lysozyme to the wine before starting the ferment may help control unwanted bacteria that may have formed, making a cleaner environment for the new yeast. And adding yeast hulls to the stuck wine before the re-ferment helps improve chances for a restrt. These are all recommendations from Scott Lab on how to restrt a ferment.

Was this a juice bucket or was it made from the grape?

 

[Turock]

Do you have H2S on this wine??? You mentioned sulpher--what's up with that?

 

[Ebonheart]

SG is sitting at 1.08 still.
I used Montrachet Yeast.
There is definite sulpher smell, even now. Still smells of juice, and, now some of yeast.
Juice was and is currently in a 6 gallon bucket covered with large plastic bag.
It was juice from a sealed bucket. The current theory is that the batch was over K-metaed for shipping. So, It's possible that it's not stuck so much as literally unstartable.

 

[Julie]

It should start, even over sulphite, you might have to do some rigorous stirring. What is the sg now?

 

[Ebonheart]

I was thinking, driving in this morning, about diluting the juice with new juice in order to get things going? I have 5 gallons in a 6 gallon bucket. If I got a 1 gallon starter going with fresh juice, it might dilute it enough to get the juice in the bucketgoing. If not, I go get another gallon or 2, and split into 2 buckets, and keep going til I get a reaction.

Sound plausable? Anyone have a reasonably cheap idea on how to do this? I'm sure that I can't just go get Welches White grape juice and suger it to 21brix, right?

 

[jamesngalveston]

you said you had it covered with a plastic bag...remove bag cover with a cloth....maybe there is not enough o2.
also...get a stronger yeast, like a red star pasteur red....
maybe get some superferment.....

 

[Julie]

You need to resolve the issue with the sulpher before going on a different route, try splashing racking your wine and what are your readings? What did you start out at and what is it now.

 

[Ebonheart]

I'll splash it from bucket to bucket tonight when I get home, really get some air in it, and take readings for SG and acid Levels and report back.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I would buy the Uva ferm 43 yeast, this yeast can jump start a Mack truck! It is recommend as a stuck fermentation starter in the Scott Labs Fermentation handbook, you can't find a better resource than that! Morewine has a warehouse in PA, you could probably get it tomorrow if ordered today.
I seriously wouldn't wait too much longer, a week and a half at 65°-70° is a perfect environment for mold, mildew and a slew of spoilage organisms. One of the reasons that fermenting wine can stay exposed to oxygen (in the form of head space) while fermenting is due to the production of CO2 that creates a vapor barrier between the must and oxygen, if the must is sitting in a bucket, even covered for any length of time, it is just a matter of time before spoilage organisms take over.
If the juice had so much sulfur added to it to stop fermentation, you wouldn't be able to drink it, and you would smell it throughout your house.
How does the juice smell? Any off odors or white film on the surface?

 

[Turock]

You mean you have H2S? You said you used Montrachet. That culture really needs good nutrient management or it gets too stressed and produces H2S. For H2S issues, you should dose the wine with Reduless.

Boy, I can't imagine so many problems with Niagara. We make alot of this wine--and always use Montrachet on it. What a bummer. The other source of sulpher is from the vineyard thru spraying.

1.08 is about 20 brix!!! Sounds like this ferment never took off.

 

[Ebonheart]

Ok, SG still 1.08, though it might have fallen a bit, maybe 0.002. I took ten minutes last night sloshing from bucket to bucket. After each switch, I was getting pinprick bubbles coming out of the solution for a bit, so I take that as a positive. Just a little bit of shean on the top of the juice, though It might have been from the dump bucket I was using, no visible colonies on top, again juice is clear to the bottom. I moved the stuff into another room, more in the 60 degree range. I also went and bought a bucket bag, to get more oxygen in it rather than a plastic bag. I'm now starting another starter yeast using EC-1118, following a recipe I found for stubborn, oversulfited, or stuck juice,(1 cup juice, 2 cups warm water, and packet of yeast, add a 1/2 juice after 24 hours, and 1/2 cup juice 8 hours later). Wish me luck, this is probably my last shot at it.

 

[jamesngalveston]

It seems as if your last ditch effort maybe the best one.
Hope it starts.....

I use paint spray filter bags for fruit in bucket, and for covering bucket.
There 1.99 for two 5 gallon size at home depot.

 

[Turock]

Yeah, for sure--let us know if it gets going!!

 

[Ebonheart]

Ok, I think I finally got the Niagara going. I made a starter with welches and sugar this past Friday, stuck it in the bucket Saturday, and it's fuzzing well today. Probably will taste like crap when it's done, but I learned something out of it all.

 

[jamesngalveston]

you never know..it may end up being very good, dont sale yourself short.

 

[Turock]

Well, hurrah--let's hope it turns out.

 

[Ebonheart]

There's at least 10 other people with juice from this shipment. Some have gotten theirs to ferment, others have just pitched theirs. I have no high hopes on the quality of the wine, considering that it sat around nearly a month. Right now it's giving off a rather unpleasant rotten eggs smell, no doubt from the sulpher gassing off because of fermentation. We'll see, but in the future, I suspect that I'll be bucket mixing juice from now on before I try fermentation, and I'll be making starters for them as well.

The key, I think was the daily bucket mixing, and making a starter using something else. The starter was simply a half gallon of Welches White grape juice (a bottle) a half pound of sugar, and a 1/4 gallon of water. I boiled up the water, added the sugar, cooling it, and added it to a 2 gallon bucket with the juice and Hydrated EC-1118 yeast. Starting SG of 1.010 on the mix.

 

[Turock]

It really sounds like you need to dose it with Redulees. Don't allow the H2S smell to remain or else it will become a flavor and produce mercaptans. You can get Redulees at www.MoreWine.com