Transitioning From Kits to Fruit

[NoSnob]

I'm still a newbie on this board but I've been busy. All my wines are from WE kits. Bottle aging are the Cab-Merlot blend and the Wash. Reisling. In carboys are the Italian Barolo and the Sonoma Pinot Noir. I've been poring over Tim P.'s Home Winemaking for Dummies, looking for a decent wine refrigerator and home shelving.

Living in Florida, I can't really grow my own grapes, nor can I source local grapes since so few grow here and they're not my style. But I do wonder if I should begin launching out a bit and consider options other than kits. I wonder if it is typical that beginners start with kits, learn the steps and the application of theory, and move on to more independent types of winemaking. I would be interested in your generalizations about this.

Do most beginning winemakers start with kits and eventually transition over to canned or frozen fruit, fruit concentrates, or grape shipments? How many stay with kits?

NS

 

[Wade E]

Many stay with kits because they just dont have the room for the equipment needed such as crusher/destemmer and press and others choose to stay with kits due to the ease and consistancy of quality (no risk factor) Unless you are out of the country you should still be able to get grapes or juice buckets as there has to be some LHBS that would carry grapes or the juicesomewhere near you. You must have plenty of other fruits available to you to make country win es down there though right?

 

[NoSnob]

Yep, plenty of peaches especially from south Georgia. And blueberries are plentiful now and then. I'm thinking more about canned blackberry or other fruit concentrate mixed with grape juice concentrate, both available from my LHBS.
NS

 

[jet]

For whites, you can mail order frozen juice in the autumn/winter. You can also get red must, but that requires some way to press it.

 

[Julie]

I'm still a newbie on this board but I've been busy. All my wines are from WE kits. Bottle aging are the Cab-Merlot blend and the Wash. Reisling. In carboys are the Italian Barolo and the Sonoma Pinot Noir. I've been poring over Tim P.'s Home Winemaking for Dummies, looking for a decent wine refrigerator and home shelving.

Living in Florida, I can't really grow my own grapes, nor can I source local grapes since so few grow here and they're not my style. But I do wonder if I should begin launching out a bit and consider options other than kits. I wonder if it is typical that beginners start with kits, learn the steps and the application of theory, and move on to more independent types of winemaking. I would be interested in your generalizations about this.

Do most beginning winemakers start with kits and eventually transition over to canned or frozen fruit, fruit concentrates, or grape shipments? How many stay with kits?

NS

Starting with kits is the smart way of doing wine first. As you stated you learned the steps and reasoning about why you do what you do.

If you are the type who lilkes to experiment or try new things, yes start making wines from fruits and fruit concentrates. These are early drinkers so it is nice to have some fruit wines on stock to allow your grape wines to age a bit.

 

[Tom]

Julie is right.Most start with kits to get the basics down then go to fruit ..

The thing to remember is ck here 1st before making fruit wine. Alot of the recipies out there are VERY low on fruit and high on alcohol. Peaches for example, I would start with 6#'s sliced and pitted per gallon

 

[Wade E]

I agree with Tom on making any fruit wine. Im not saying that hey know nothing and all recipes are Bs but some of them just make way too much alc and dont use nowhere near enough fruit basically making you a colored neutral beveragewith no taste.

 

[NoSnob]

Good ideas, all. What is a dependable source book for proven recipes? I have Crowe's Answer book (mostly technique) and Stan & Dorothy Anderson's Winemaking book (1989) with a lot of recipes.

Do some winemakers just stay with kits in perpetuity? How typical are they?
NS

 

[Dugger]

I have been making kit wine for about 17 years and will continue to make them. I started out with the cheaper kits and over the years have progressed to the better kits as my tastes and knowledge have grown. I found this forum a few years ago and that has helped me immensely in understanding the process and the possibilities for making wine. As a result last year I made my first fruit wine ( Blackberry and Blueberry) but these are not yet bottled so I don't know how good they will be. Also, until last year I did not have a dedicated area to make wine and now that I have, my desire to try different types of wine has grown.
Grapes and grape juice are not easy to source in this area and those that are available are quite expensive so that is not likely a viable option for me, although I will try some juice pails at some time.
So kit wine will remain my primary source for wine making - I find the quality can be very good, the variety is exceptional, the source is constant and consistent, shelf life is good, the cost is reasonable and can be tailored to your means and the equipment and space requirements are not onerous.
How typical am I? I don't know - I think it depends on your individual needs and wants, your geographic location and your resources whether or not you use kits or stay with kits.

 

[EdwardLongshanks]

Dugger where do you buy your Wine Kits from. I live in the Valley and there are 3 or 4 stores around here and they sell pretty much anything from WE, Vineco, RJS, and there is now a Winekitz in New Minas that does FOM. I find the prices to be really good and the selection is great its hard to decide when you are new to wine like me and don't really know what I like. I have a few 1 gallon jugs as well and since its summer I am thinking of doing some experimenting with those smaller batches

 

[mmadmikes1]

I find no single source a good every time recipe. All fruits vary and most recipes do not take this in to account(they cant). So, here is some great advise, look at the recipe you think you may use. Post it here and get feedback. Ask why when people say "do this" if they don't say. Accept that sometimes when learning you will make mistakes and not all can be fixed. Most of the regulars here don't work with recipes, they work from experience and most have ways that work for them. Julie posted a great guild line*( works better than calling it a recipe) for berry wine a while back. It tells you how to deal with some variables. I do mine almost the same as she does. I can't find the post right now so I hope she can chime in. Luc has a blog that is great reading with a ton of good experience to read. Grapes are spendy so take a few shots at some less expensive(peach or cheap berries) first to get you feet wet. That and grapes are still a few months away. O I love October

 

[almargita]

Lot of people have access to free fruit either buy growing or knowing where to pick stuff cheap. Comparing buying fruits when they are in season & going thru the process of crushing & extracting the juices, how good are the canned juices, like the Vinters Harvest ones. I would think they would have quality juices, picked & canned. If you have to buy the fruit, are the canned varities just as good or better than fresh?? In the spring we can get buckets of juice from Chile and juice from Cal in the fall, plus from many local wineries.
Would like some opinions on the what canned varities are best liked. I guess you can also doctor up some of the Vinters Harvest blends with some fresh fruits also for a more flavorful blend.... Just curious, how popular the canned juices are???

Al

 

[Tom]

1.
Canned fruit. I would pass. Most not all have preservatives. Always check. I did do a Addi's Plum that was OK

Use fresh/frozen

2
Juices. Use only 100% juice. Also ck to see what if any preservatives it has.

 

[Dugger]

Dugger where do you buy your Wine Kits from. I live in the Valley and there are 3 or 4 stores around here and they sell pretty much anything from WE, Vineco, RJS, and there is now a Winekitz in New Minas that does FOM. I find the prices to be really good and the selection is great its hard to decide when you are new to wine like me and don't really know what I like. I have a few 1 gallon jugs as well and since its summer I am thinking of doing some experimenting with those smaller batches

I get my WinExpert kits ( usually LE's) from Noble Grape and was getting my Spagnols kits from Water 'n Wine ( usually RQ's and a few GCI's) both in Lower Sackville. Water n Wine was recently bought out by Noble Grape so my source for Spagnols will likely be Maritime Brew in Halifax. I only make about 6-7 kits a year now ( mostly reds) so pretty well stick to the bigger kits. I've only made a very few Vineco kits and none of the WineKitz ones.
I would recommend to you the Grand Cru International kits as I believe they are the best bang for your buck and also a couple of the limited kits when they are offered in the fall. The Trinity kits from WE are also good value. If money is not an issue go to the RJS Winery Series or En Primeur or the WE Estate Series. You are also lucky enough to be in the Valley so fruit will be very available to you so take advantage of that, with your small jugs. You might also want to try Foote Family farm who I'm told offer buckets of apple juice on Fridays ( not sure if it's all year or just in season) to try apple wine or cider.
Regarding what you like, that's something only you can decide - buy a few $10-12 bottles at the liquor store and see what you enjoy; better still find a friend who already makes wine and try some out. It's also a lot of fun to make kits with 2-3 other couples and share the results - more variety at less cost and bottling parties are a blast!
I didn't know WineKitz were doing FOP; I'd heard some one was but didn't know who. That will soon put the matter before the courts again and this time it will likely succeed - good for the industry!
Good luck.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

I've never used a kit. I think it's more about how far with the hobby you want to go. For me, it just kept going. Still is.

IMO, if you want to make something truly yours, find juice/fruit and see what you can do with it. If you want good wine consistently, especially from grapes, a kit is a good option. I will always suggest having all these tools for any wine maker: hydrometer, some kind of acid tester, multiple sized containers w/plungers and airlocks, racking wand and a bottle filler. If you have all of these, especially in a nice climate in FL, you will be surprised at whole will show up with various fruits for you to make wine! lol. Once we got started, our whole family (mostly farmers) was telling us what things they have growing and could we make wine from them.

 

[NoSnob]

Sounds like many routes can be taken to become a good winemaker and that kits are a good way to start. I also get the sense that one should be open to local opportunities for sourcing juice and fruit and flexible about learning what works for each of us. I am enjoying hearing about your different approaches to winemaking and how it has worked for each of you. This really is a great place to learn.
NS

 

[eboobi]

Not that I have been at it that long but I have never used a kit to make wine. I have done a few from frozen concentrate, a few from fresh fruit, and a few from frozen fruit from the local grocery store. I like going and picking my fruit from the local orchards and talking to the people there. The kids also like to pick fruit so it gives them some way to be involved in my hobby. They help out with bottling and other things as well but it is just another facet to the hobby that I can share. That said I have brewed beer for many years so I didn't walk into the hobby with no idea of what I was doing and I had a lot of the equipment already available to me. My wife's grandmother gave us an antique press that I am rehabbing right now.

I think everybody has given good advice on both sides. The hobby is yours. As long as you enjoy the kits there is no reason to change. If you want to have more control and more work then experiment with the other side.

 

[EdwardLongshanks]

eboobi one of the reason Kits are so popular in Canada is because we pay between two and four times as much for a regular dry wine as you guys in the States do. Its not so much about making your own fruit wine and such as it is about having affordable table wine or even Wine to cellar. Also our provincial government has a monopoly on the liquor store so If there is a "Sale" you are usuall buying a $15 bottle of Wine for $13.49. when my father goes to Florida he buys the same wine for $7, and there is always something on sale for 2 for 1 or something like that.
Canada and The US are completely different markets when it comes to Wine and that is why all the major Kit manufactures are Canadian companies. There is a need for them here that just doesn't exist south of the border

 

[Wade E]

Kits are a great place to start and learn the process without really having a chance at failure as they are 99.99% fail proof and if you buy the higher end kits which I recommend it will produce a great wine. The cheaper ones even with white wine kits will be weaker in body but no where near a weak as the red win e kits which I would never recommend buying even as a first time wine maker. Like I said, even if you are making your 1st wine I dont recommend buying a cheap kit, you really cant screw one of these up unless you are very lazy and dont use common sense on cleanliness!!! As far as canned fruits against fresh fruits goes - If you are picking fresh fruits or buying fresh fruits that are ripe there is NO comparison!!! The Vintners harvest wine base cans produce some decent results if you use the 3 gallon recipe and even a few of those are weak but for the most part follow these rules - If its a weaker type flavored fruit like strawberry versus like elderberry then the weaker type fruit will almost always make aless flavorful wine so you will want to use more fruit or base in the weaker wine.

 

[jet]

eboobi one of the reason Kits are so popular in Canada is because we pay between two and four times as much for a regular dry wine as you guys in the States do. Its not so much about making your own fruit wine and such as it is about having affordable table wine or even Wine to cellar. Also our provincial government has a monopoly on the liquor store so If there is a "Sale" you are usuall buying a $15 bottle of Wine for $13.49. when my father goes to Florida he buys the same wine for $7, and there is always something on sale for 2 for 1 or something like that.
Canada and The US are completely different markets when it comes to Wine and that is why all the major Kit manufactures are Canadian companies. There is a need for them here that just doesn't exist south of the border

It's still that way?

I knew home winemaking owed a lot to draconian Canadian alcohol laws, but I thought those laws had now gone the way of the dodo.