Tiny bubbles...

[botigol]

Hi,

I originally posted this in the recipe section, but thought that I would repost in order to put it in front of a larger audience:

I started a batch of Apfelwein on 9/1 using unfiltered juice and Cotes des Blancs yeast. The initial fementation went fine, except that I had trouble measuring the SG. There was so much gas that my hydrometer would drop and then immediately start rising. I racked it after a week and figured that I would just leave it alone. Now, three months later, I still have a small amount of tiny bubbles rising in the carboy. The ambient and wine temperatures have been in the mid-60s for the past ten weeks. I am still very new at this, but 90 days seems like a long time for fermentation to still be in process. I could take another reading, but since I don't have a valid number from before I don't know how much value it would bring. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

 

[botigol]

RegionalRat already gave me, what in retrospect seems like, an obvious solution to the testing issue, but I am still wondering about having bubbles rising after so long. I haven't opened the carboy in some time, just waiting for the wine to do its thing. Still under airlock.

 

[Rocky]

Have you tried any mechanical (e.g. stirring) or vacuum degassing? If it were I, I would get a sample amount out of the carboy and in a bottle, cover the top with your hand and shake the bottle to induce gas. Do this repeatedly until there is not more gas, pour it into a testing tube and then take an SG reading. How clear is the batch? Your are correct in stating that 90 days should be more than sufficient time to complete fermentation. Let us know what you learn.

 

[saddlebronze]

I just went through this. Those little bubbles can continue for a very long time. I stopped them by racking and adding meta since I had reached target SG. They are CO2 and will take a long time to come out at low temperatures.

 

[Tyroneshoolace]

If it hasn't had any s02 added yet, or treated with lysosyme you may have a wild Malo going.

With my cider I would treat with lysosyme to help protect from mlf starting as it doesn't bring out a profile that I like.

It may just be residual gas but I don't think it would still bubble like that especially if you started it the first of September.

 

[botigol]

Thanks for the replies!

The wine is still pretty cloudy; significantly more clear than it was a few weeks ago, but still cloudy. I have been wondering if it was natural degassing or possibly MLF...I haven't added much of anything to this batch. EdWort's instructions say to just leave it, although at a warmer temperature than I have chosen. MLF can only be verified with a special test, correct?

I hope to have time to test/degas and test a sample later tonight.

 

[botigol]

There is a ton of gas in this wine! I took two samples: 1. check SG, 2. degas and taste. The gas wasn't an issue in testing this time; SG = 0.995 so fermentation should be complete. Degassing was an issue...despite the small sample that I took, less than 1oz, I could not get the gas out. I also noticed an odor similar to latex (Band-Aid-ish) while degassing, so I checked the carboy and it is there as well. Please tell me that this might be from the CO2 and will go away.

 

[robie]

I don't know about that smell. 90 days without any SO2 (Kmeta) being added is a long time, so I wonder if the wine is not spoiled.

.995 is definitely dry, so fermentation is done.

Fill a bottle half full of the wine. With your thumb over the opening, shake it really hard; release your thumb to release the gas and pressure. Do this until only a very small poof, if any, is felt when you release pressure. Then, pour the wine into an open glass and let it set for about an hour.

Now, smell the wine; it should smell normal. If not, you have a problem.
Go to the internet and goggle - "bandaid smell to wine"

You will see several articles about what you likely have in your wine.

"Band-aid, Barnyard, Manure
These aromas are indicative of Brettanomyces, (lovingly dubbed “Brett” by the wine world). “Brett” is actually a yeast which will spoil the wine, but in small amounts, some wine drinkers actually enjoy it. Others absolutely despise it."

Next time, use a hydrometer to measure your SG. When the wine has been fermenting for 7 days or so, the amount of gas won't significantly affect the SG reading. Once the SG reading has not fallen for 3 days or so and the reading is at or below 1.000, it is time to stabilize and degas.

Once this is done, keep the wine in a topped off container with an air lock. After it clears, give it at least six weeks, you can bottle.

We have a tutorial section on this forum that wil take you through the proces in greater detail.

Once again, don't try to make wine without a hydrometer.

 

[botigol]

That this was caused by brettanomyces was my fear. So what to do next is the question. I found a forum post from one person who referenced a Band-Aid aroma and found the wine "undrinkable" who just left the batch as was. After four months he said that it was pretty good. At minimum I would add a dose of k-meta to prevent further growth of brett. Jack Keller says that you can attempt to combat brett with active charcoal. The final option is to dump it and try again. What does everyone think?

Thanks!

 

[robie]

That this was caused by brettanomyces was my fear. So what to do next is the question. I found a forum post from one person who referenced a Band-Aid aroma and found the wine "undrinkable" who just left the batch as was. After four months he said that it was pretty good. At minimum I would add a dose of k-meta to prevent further growth of brett. Jack Keller says that you can attempt to combat brett with active charcoal. The final option is to dump it and try again. What does everyone think?

Thanks!

My vote - Dump, start again, and enjoy the lessons you have learned. We have all been there one mistake or another.

Brettanomyces can gain a foothold in your wine making area and cause problems with future batches. I would get rid of it. Similar reasoning why one is never to make vinegar in the same are as one makes wine.

 

[Tyroneshoolace]

My vote - Dump, start again, and enjoy the lessons you have learned. We have all been there one mistake or another.

Brettanomyces can gain a foothold in your wine making area and cause problems with future batches. I would get rid of it. Similar reasoning why one is never to make vinegar in the same are as one makes wine.

I agree 100% and would do the same.

 

[botigol]

Definitely not the opinion that I was hoping for, but understandable nonetheless. I appreciate your input and time in answering my questions!