Super Dry and Sweet Fruit Wine?

[cocroach]

I am a big fan of highly tannic red wines. I am wondering if it is possible to achieve that same dry bite that I love so much with red wines with fruit wines, or does this characteristic not lend well to fruit wines? All of the fruit wines that I have tasted so seem to lack that nice tart dryness and instead are on the sweet, smooth side; this makes me think that maybe fruit wines are not cut out to me made as super dry wines?

The fruit wine I am looking to make will be either a blackberry, or blueberry wine. For the last fruit wines I made (cherry and raspberry) I almost doubled the tannin powder that was called for in a dry fruit wine recipe, but it didn't do much. I don't want to risk ruining a batch by dumping in too much tannin if this is not the way fruit wines are meant to be.

Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks.

 

[Runningwolf]

iI think you'll be fine making blackberry and blueberry as dry or semi dry wines. I think you'll want to make sure the acids are in line before fermentation since you don't want to balance them out with sugar post fermentation. I think most fruit wines do well with some sugar as it makes the aromas and flavors pop out in them.

 

[cocroach]

Thanks Dan! This might be a dumb question, but how do I make sure the acids are in line? I am pretty new to wine-making.

 

[Julie]

To test acid by using a tritation kit or using a ph meter. And you should try a glass of fruit wine and add a little acid blend to see if upping the acid might not give you that tartness that you are looking for in a fruit wine.

 

[moesagoodboy]

Thanks Dan! This might be a dumb question, but how do I make sure the acids are in line? I am pretty new to wine-making.

Rochelle

Broadly speaking there are two methods to evaluate acidity: Art and Science.
The art method is what Danger Dave uses, he goes strictly by taste. The science method uses a PH meter and titration.

I'm going the science method with the hope of someday being able to evaluate just by taste.

Here's a link that addresses acidity:

Joe

 

[Turock]

Another idea for you is the introduction of oak, which IS tannin but in a different form. Blackberry is a good fruit wine to add some oak to. And if you ferment the blackberry with a malic metabolizing culture like 71B or Maurvin B, it will reduce the acid making the wine smoother so that you don't need to sweeten as much--and maybe not at all--in order to balance the acid.

We make alot of fruit wines of all kinds and their profile is different from a big red. When I taste a fruit wine, I want it to taste exactly like the fruit--NOT a "wine" taste. We also make some big red wines--and enjoy them for what they are. But we don't expect the fruit wines to be the same. After all--how boring is THAT? I like the different profiles of the various wines and don't WANT them to be the same.

 

[Runningwolf]

Keep in mind everyone is talking about upping the acid which may be the case. On the other hand you may also have fruit way to high in acid such is the case when buying fruit juice at Walkers such as Cranberry and raspberry.

 

[Turock]

If you're looking for a tart fruit wine---which is far different from higher acidity--then you might look to making a sour cherry wine. Our sour cherry wine has a distinctive tart flavor even tho the PH is about 3.3 or 3.4 Even the nose of this wine is "tart." Use no water, ferment with a nice fruity culture like Montrachet. We like it sweetened, but if you want it dry, I think this would fit the bill of what you're trying to achieve.

High acid fruit wines are not that pleasant to drink--especially something like blackberry--because it doesn't come off as "tart". It comes off as HARSH.

 

[Runningwolf]

High acid fruit wines are not that pleasant to drink--especially something like blackberry--because it doesn't come off as "tart". It comes off as HARSH.

Turock you are so right about this. I made a strawberry from juice at Walkers before I knew what I was doing. One of the worst wines I made besides candy cane. I may try this again and do it right this time cutting the acid to something reasonable.

 

[cocroach]

Thanks all for all of the great feedback! Looking forward to trying out some of these methods. The article is helpful.

Cheers

 

[Turock]

Runningwolf----We make a large batch of strawberry every year. We make it from fresh berries that we choose for high flavor from the Amish fruit auction and ferment with no water. One thing we found is that it is SO important to get the acid under control. We found that a PH of 3.4 is not quite high enough because you still get quite an acid hit on the tongue. A PH of 3.5, or so, is much better. Use calcium carbonate pre-ferment and you can taste the juice as you're adjusting in order to get it where you think it should be.

Strawberry wine, done correctly, is one of the highest flavored and delightful wines you'll ever make.

 

[reefman]

Thanks Dan! This might be a dumb question, but how do I make sure the acids are in line? I am pretty new to wine-making.
Rochelle

Dan,
I'm disappointed that you did not show pictures of your basement lab equipment when asked this question......

 

[Runningwolf]

Runningwolf----We make a large batch of strawberry every year. We make it from fresh berries that we choose for high flavor from the Amish fruit auction and ferment with no water. One thing we found is that it is SO important to get the acid under control. We found that a PH of 3.4 is not quite high enough because you still get quite an acid hit on the tongue. A PH of 3.5, or so, is much better. Use calcium carbonate pre-ferment and you can taste the juice as you're adjusting in order to get it where you think it should be.

Strawberry wine, done correctly, is one of the highest flavored and delightful wines you'll ever make.

Turock that great information, thanks for sharing. I think I might have to look at another Rhubarb/Strawberry wine. When I did my Jalapeno wine I got the jalapenos from an Amish auction.

Dan,
I'm disappointed that you did not show pictures of your basement lab equipment when asked this question......

Thanks Doug, I only wish I could lay it out like I would really want to. SS tables are nice but you really can't beat have cupboards and a counter top for a good sturdy service. Add a sink to it and you would really be rocking. With my SS tables you have to be carefull about bumping into it and disturbing things.

 

[Julie]

Turock, thanks again for the insight into acid. I would like to add, thou, that acid should be to your liking. For example, I was always willing to go with textbook numbers for acid, then I got a bottle of Wade's Elderberry wine. My TA was always around .70% but Wade takes his to .80% and it was way better. While I will always check for PH and TA, I, also, will check by taste and I just might take a little tartaric acid or acid blend and add a pinch to see if a little higher acid just might make this pop a little more.

There is a line before the acid goes from tart to harsh but that does not mean you should not push the line to see where it is. Do it by glass and not carboy.

This is why I suggested about adding acid, this wine just might be on the low side and needs this humph.

 

[robie]

Broadly speaking there are two methods to evaluate acidity: Art and Science.
The art method is what Danger Dave uses, he goes strictly by taste. The science method uses a PH meter and titration.

I'm going the science method with the hope of someday being able to evaluate just by taste.

Here's a link that addresses acidity:

Joe

In the end, by taste is what one should be after because we don't all enjoy the same level of acid. However, a must will ferment out much better if it starts out as acid/pH balanced as possible. That's great except it may not end up tasting its best, depending on the person dong the tasting, of course. So, once the wine is clear and degassed, it can be fine tuned to the individual wine maker's or consumer's taste.

 

[Turock]

Yeah Julie--I really get what you're saying because everyone's tastebuds can process acids in different ways. Myself, I really like acidic things. I love to eat lemons just as they are, so I would say I'm very acid tolerant. But strawberry wine that is acidic is something I'm not a fan of.

I think thr reason behind it is that when we make fruit wines, we want it to taste just like the fruit. And if you ate a strawberry that was too acidic, you'd say to yourself,"this doesn't seem to be ripe enough." So tamping the acid down some more gets it to tasting like a fully ripe berry and will be good tasting to those who don't like the acid hit. But, as always, you have to do it the way you like it best.

 

[Julie]

Turock, Yes!!! and Thank you for seeing my point. Ok, another wine I would think is low in acid would be Peach.

You do understand my point and I think there are a lot of new winemakers who don't know this. If you buy a ph meter or an tritration kit, they will give you a range of where the red wine's ph and acid should be, same with white and fruit but I say those are just guidelines and not necessarily true. Strawberry would take a lower acid, elderberry would be a higher acid. I guess in a nutshell what I am trying to say is don't be afraid to play with the acid in your wine. Your tastebuds will tell you what they like, whether it is a higher acid or a lower acid, and by all means take a reading so you know what to do next time around.


You eat lemons !!!!!!!!!:< LOL, the last time I sucked on a lemon was with a shot of tequila and a lick of salt!

 

[Turock]

Peach definitely needs to have some acid on it or it tastes just like dishwater. Same thing with Niagara wine--we always hit it with some additional acid to bring the PH down to 3.2 If the acid is higher, it loses flavor and tastes blah.

I think the whole idea here, in a nutshell, is being sure you have good acid balance with the sugar you are using. If you have to add TOO much sugar to balance the acid, you can lose some flavor because the sugar tamps the flavor down too much. Too little acid plus sugar can be like dishwater. So you have to dance around with the two of them in order to achieve what you think is the perfect balance. Additionally, you have to be even more careful with delicate-tasting wines when it comes to sugar because it's easy to get them blah tasting.

In restaurants, when I have a lemon slice in a drink or on a plate of food, I always eat the lemon. They aren't overly acidic to me and I love the flavor of a fresh lemon!