Has anyone done a sumac wine? I have so many on my property, but still need to positively identify. I believe they are stagehorn sumac. Would love to hear experiences!
Sumac wine?
- Thread starter Newbie Mel
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Wish I could help. This year, like last year, all my flower/fruit tips died, dried and shriveled, don't know why. Maybe next year.
I have smooth and staghorn in different areas. Staghorn has "hairy" stems.
I have smooth and staghorn in different areas. Staghorn has "hairy" stems.
Mine might be shriveled too. Just noticed they yesterday. Hadn’t been out in the fields much recently, but whatever I have, there’s a gazzillion. Will be checking again tomorrow and trying to positively identify.
My phone (which I don’t totally trust, but a place to start) says Shining Sumac. Another picture came up as Staghorn, but I didn’t notice hairy stems. The berries have an oily feel to them. I could not count the number I have and some are not accessible. I researched poisonous sumac and these do not have the identifying characteristics as the poisonous. I will have to see how difficult to harvest and get the berries off.
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?what species grows in Kentucky? In the Midwest, I have an advantage in that my folks called the plant sumach and staghorn sumach might be said occasionally. The poisonous species is supposed to grow in more swampy areas and berries are not red. ,,, I still tried to key it out, and was surprised that sumach is ground and then used as a spice in middle eastern foods. Your photo did not show the up side down pointy grape cluster shape I expected but the berry looks correct.
Staghorn sumach has clusters of hard, brownish berries which have a red color velvet on them. The berry does not compress, ie the flavor is from all the surface velvet. When I ran them the tea they make is dirty looking with lots of flower bracts and a few insects. The tea from steeping seeds is a nice rose color and stable over time. Desteming the seeds is hard, there is equipment with metal combs which pull them out. Using a kitchen fork seemed slow so I wound up collecting berries by rubbing with hand. AND yes my hands and a fork would feel greasy.
A tea made with 644 grams of berries in a liter of tap water gave a pH of 2.87; TA 1.10%; gravity of 1.008 . One weight with two weights distilled water gave pH 2.65; TA 5.03%. ,,, For me it is a clean flavor acid source that can be used to acidify watermelon while adding a stable pink color. ,,, What else? The acid/ flavor is concentrated on the surface of the berry therefore if it has rained recently you have lower acidity / flavor level.
Staghorn sumach has clusters of hard, brownish berries which have a red color velvet on them. The berry does not compress, ie the flavor is from all the surface velvet. When I ran them the tea they make is dirty looking with lots of flower bracts and a few insects. The tea from steeping seeds is a nice rose color and stable over time. Desteming the seeds is hard, there is equipment with metal combs which pull them out. Using a kitchen fork seemed slow so I wound up collecting berries by rubbing with hand. AND yes my hands and a fork would feel greasy.
A tea made with 644 grams of berries in a liter of tap water gave a pH of 2.87; TA 1.10%; gravity of 1.008 . One weight with two weights distilled water gave pH 2.65; TA 5.03%. ,,, For me it is a clean flavor acid source that can be used to acidify watermelon while adding a stable pink color. ,,, What else? The acid/ flavor is concentrated on the surface of the berry therefore if it has rained recently you have lower acidity / flavor level.
Thank you for all that information! What I hear, and correct me if I am wrong, is that the sumac alone may be too acidic and may be better to supplement something with low acid like watermelon?
Yes it is acidic. The traditional way would be to make a “lemonade “ which means add water to get the TA in proper range. My running a .6 dilution in tap water would produce double the target TA. This is close to Jack Keller four pounds fruit per gallon.
Sumac is missing aroma. I add ingredients which are high aroma. ,,, ex watermelon
Sumac is missing aroma. I add ingredients which are high aroma. ,,, ex watermelon
I found some simply watermelon juice at store, no preservatives. I’m going to try using that instead of water. The sumac variety found most in KY is Smooth and Shining. I do have a few more questions, if I may. I am wondering if I waited too long, some of the berries do look a bit dried up. However I found a patch today that look almost not ripe enough yet and the berries don’t easily come off the stem. I understand this is going to be a labor intensive task, but do I need to sort through and take out the old looking berries also? My picture may not be clear enough but on my finger is an old looking berry.
I am only going to do a gallon as a test. Do you think 20 clusters would be sufficient? I have many more than that available, just the thought of destemming is intimidating.
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My experience with watermelon has been disappointing, the flavor does not seem to age well. This include shelf stable retail watermelon juice. I was disappointed.
The berries you photographed seem smoother. What I pick has a fuzz. The record I pulled up had 644 grams and when all together was topped off as a gallon. Twenty clusters?.. what weight? Every wine is made to taste.
The berries you photographed seem smoother. What I pick has a fuzz. The record I pulled up had 644 grams and when all together was topped off as a gallon. Twenty clusters?.. what weight? Every wine is made to taste.
Scrapping this idea for this year, but may revisit next. As @Rice_Guy pointed out the berries of a smooth or shining sumac are different from the Staghorn. Without having a comparison I can’t say how the flavor differs. My little experiment was interesting, if nothing else. I cold steeped the berries overnight. The result was a very pleasant lemony drink, with an aftertaste I could not identify. It wasn’t bad, but not good either. My palette is not well developed, so I can rarely say what something tastes like, but this was lemony for sure. I would have proceeded with making a test batch of wine, but I goofed. I strained the liquid into a bucket that has a spigot and didn’t realize the spigot was open, so I lost a bunch. I am keeping what I salvaged and drinking it as lemonade, still trying to figure out what the aftertaste is.
You can still collect/ use the berries. I have had two paper grocery sacks on the shelf for winter projects. It is shelf stable. The plants here will have seed heads hang all winter.
Your description of lemony is appropriate.
Your description of lemony is appropriate.
@Newbie Mel I had a couple thoughts about processing. First, I wonder if freezing would make collecting the berries easier? This year I froze whole elderberry clusters and the berries easily popped off. Second, do you even need to bother? If you do a cold soak maybe having some of the stem doesn't matter, just strip bunches from the inside stem? That's how I made my "lemonade" years ago.
I don't understand what happened to mine. In previous years the furry berries would last well into winter but this year and last they all shriveled, died, and vanished in August. Maybe next year.
I don't understand what happened to mine. In previous years the furry berries would last well into winter but this year and last they all shriveled, died, and vanished in August. Maybe next year.
For my experiment I did not I did not take the berries off the stem. I watched YouTube video where a guy just cold soaked the bunches and then strained. Although, your suggestion to strip bunches from the inside stem makes more sense, as I think I had left too much stem by just putting the whole cluster in. Maybe that’s where the aftertaste I couldn’t identify was coming from. Definitely going to give that a try, along with freezing the clusters.
I have been collecting may pops for my next experiment. I found that if I cut them in half and freeze them, when thawed I can just pinch them and the pulp pops right out. Much easier and less messy than trying to scoop out the pulp of each of these little guys. I’ve probably collected about 100 so far and need another 50. I can find about 20 a day and each day there are more out there. Still seeing some flowers on some of the vines so I’ve got time.
Now I just need more gallon jugs. At least until I graduate from experiments to bigger quantities! And I need more room to work. That part is under construction
. Definitely needed because the persimmon are starting to ripen also. Well I guess I need a bigger freezer too 
. When does it end???? Wish I had a basement. Love where I live, but small house has its limitations.Collecting the berries wasn’t quite as easy as I thought it would be. Quantity is not a problem, but I was covered in burrs from just the small amount I collected. Time to get the weed wacker out. Good to know they are shelf stable. I will need a project come winter. Fall is keeping me busy.
@Newbie Mel, all I can say is "Yippee!"
I was collecting wild rose hips yesterday (one guess why!) passing group after group of sumac with no berries. At the edge of the property near the pond I had a mysterious urge to look up....and smiled....about 12 trees with berries. I had to use a ladder but I didn't care. Managed to collect about 3 gallons.
Smooth sumac. Incredibly tart with a hint of fruit flavor. We're in business!
I was collecting wild rose hips yesterday (one guess why!) passing group after group of sumac with no berries. At the edge of the property near the pond I had a mysterious urge to look up....and smiled....about 12 trees with berries. I had to use a ladder but I didn't care. Managed to collect about 3 gallons.
Smooth sumac. Incredibly tart with a hint of fruit flavor. We're in business!
Can wait to hear how it goes and your process. Please keep me informed because I haven’t given up yet. I will need to use a ladder too and want to make sure I am not doing that when I am home alone.
I can understand the hesitation for being on the ladder alone. I was on the path next to the pond and in one direction my fall would be cushioned by wild roses and the flesh would be ripped from my bones by the thorns. The other direction I'd be in the pond and my flesh would be eaten from my bones by mysterious creatures that never show themselves.
Most recipes I've seen call for 5 lbs per gallon. I don't know how it's possible - I had 1064 grams (37 oz) and a gallon of water barely covered them. Picked up some nice color! We'll see if it lasts. And my pH came in at 2.72. I'll be starting it later this evening. Going with 71B.
I did not get near as much color as you are getting. I can’t wait to hear how yours turns out! My Ph came in at somewhere around 3.2. I don’t have a meter and was using less reliable strips. I was surprised it came in that high but maybe it’s not even close to accurate. I still have my lemonade in fridge, but probably need to discard at this point. Again, I can’t wait to hear more from you! You are the master of foraged wines
I neglected to mention something - recipes say not to heat the berries. Well, I poured 130F water over them. I wonder if that little bit of heat extracted extra color? That was my intention.I did not get near as much color as you are getting. I can’t wait to hear how yours turns out! My Ph came in at somewhere around 3.2. I don’t have a meter and was using less reliable strips. I was surprised it came in that high but maybe it’s not even close to accurate. I still have my lemonade in fridge, but probably need to discard at this point. Again, I can’t wait to hear more from you! You are the master of foraged wines
You're too kind. I may not be the master of foraged wines but maybe the master of being cheap!
And I've got my eyes on the berries of my Devil's Walking Stick trees. Berries edible, seeds toxic. They actually taste good, remind me of blueberries, and the birds LOVE them. That darn "toxic" thing is holding me back.
well then spit the seeds out, don’t chew
Collecting sumach seems to work better with loping shears. My experience is that the color is stable. And sumach tea is delicious.
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