WineXpert So, here’s the basis of my skepticism....

[rexmor]

I understand that everyone here seems to believe that you can produce the equivalent of a $20-30 bottle of wine with the kits. Believe me I'm hoping they do, but I keep getting back to one question: HOW THE HECK CAN THEY DO IT? Here's the source of my skepticism:


Commercial winery picks grapes at optimum ripeness, crushes and ferments while still fresh, ages in oak barrels for usually two or more years before bottling and aging further before releasing for sale.


Wine kit maker gets someone to sell them grapes for crushing [I have to wonder about the quality of grapes sold for this purpose?]and thenEVAPORATES the juice beforepackaging itin little boxes for somepossibly extendedperiod of time. Shipped around under who knows what kind of temperature changes, then fermented with oak chips, before bottling after a few weeks, and then drinking after 6-12 months supposedly as well as thecommercial wine does after several years. How could this possibly be as goodas wine produced under the process above?


If this process really does produce such good wine, why don't the commercial wineries do it? Just eliminating the barrels, and the extended aging would save them a tremendous amount of money.

 

[masta]

You should have joined us at Winestock and Tim would have answered all these questions and more on how and why you can make excellent quality wine with kits.


With the volume of grapes Winexpert is buying the grape growing wineries are competing for their business and not just selling the seconds.


Bottom line is you need to make a good quality kit exactly per the instructions, age it properly and do a blind test taste against your commercial wine (like WE does with all it's products) and decide for yourself how it compares.

 

[jcnoren]

I understand that everyone here seems to believe that you can produce the equivalent of a $20-30 bottle of wine with the kits. Believe me I'm hoping they do, but I keep getting back to one question: HOW THE HECK CAN THEY DO IT?

A Canuk here...we have heavy taxes on our alcohol and tobacco. Since you have to "prepare" a wineor beer made from a kit here thereare noadditional taxes place on it. You can purchase a high end kit say for $150.00 Canadian dollars $5.00 a bottle. Sure you then have to make the kit, have the basic equipment and then store it yourself. But it is all your own time, labour, and storage space.


JC

 

[geocorn]

Very few wines are aged in oak barrels, anymore. The cost of the barrels coupled with the cost of holding the wines in inventory for several years have forced the wineries away from the barrel. Instead, they use stainless steel tanks and oak staves to obtain the desired characteristics. Even the French are trying to abandon the oak barrel as it has made them uncompetitive.


In addition, the method used by Winexpert was invented by Gallo, as Tim will freely admit. Gallo had to come up with a way to be able to bottle all year, otherwise, they were going to have to quadruple their bottling capacity.


The bottom line is that the kits have the same quality grapes and are processed in the same manner as good wines. No, you will not create a $100 bottle of wine, but you can create a $10-30 wine with a wine kit.


BTW, check out the awards at WineMaker Magazine and you will see a whole lot of kit wines that won medals.


To download the results of the 2006 WineMaker International Amateur Wine Competition, click here.



I realize it is a "leap of faith", but a very small portion of my customers do not keep making more wines after the success of the first one.

 

[Brandst]

I'd be willing to bet that with your customer service, very few people that fail their first kit don't make at least one more. Of course, when the second one works right they keep on going.

Steve

 

[geocorn]

One of the reasons I started this business was to prove that you can have a company that takes care of its customers and its employees and still make money. As it turns out, there have been some very nice positive consequences of my decisions. Happyand satisfied customers are great for business.

 

[rexmor]

Thanks for the all the replies. Believe me, I'm definitely hoping for good results. Perhaps you've given me the answers.


George, I tour California wineries all the time [no, it wasn't me in "Sideways"], especially in my area. Are the warehousesfullof barrels I see nothing but a front? Believe me, these are not $100 bottles of wine.


However, I have to admit that if anyone could 'crack the code' of how to make good wine cheap, it's Gallo.Those guys are brilliant. If Ican make something as good as their "Gallo of Sonoma" line, I'll definitely keep coming back.


PS< I"ve got two kits underway, one in primary, one in secondary, and a third ready to start in a couple of weeks. I have followed the instructions meticulously. Within the next few months I'll definitely eliminate [or prove] my skepticism one way or the other.

 

[Pepere]

rexmore:


As a relative "newbie" I too was a skeptic. I didn't believe I could make a quality wine from a kit. Now, I admit my first kit was a "cooler" and I didn't hold out much hope that I'd care for it much. Surprise, a cooler it is and we have been enjoying it with our cook outs and so far I've not had one person tell me it wasn't a "very good cooler!" (I do have a few snobs for friends who aren't afraid to tell me exactly what they think!!)


While I've opted to bulk age my chianti, I can tell you that I could bottle right now and serve it and I doubt you'd consider it a kit wine. It is only getting better with time.


There is a place near my daughters that actually has wine tasting with nothing but kit wines. (Ohio)We spent a morning there and that is what really sold me. I tried everything from a Chard to a Chateauneuf du Pape and I was shocked at the quality of it all. I admit I'm not a big white wine drinker but the Luna Bianca (comes with four oak packets) was a knockout winner. The Vieux Chateau du Roi which is in the style of Chateaunuef du Pape, while young, was delicious. I can't imagine it getting any worse with a year of age on it.


Now for George: He is "Customer Service." I'm at least 1,000 miles away and I could easily drive to Annapolis and get my "goodies" there, however the service and this forum make the relationship with George and the folks here worth the effort and the experience. Unless your use to drinking $100 bottles of wine, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the quality of product coming out of your carboys.


Personal advice: Read, listen, read some more, be anal about cleaning everything, same about sanitizing, be patient and prepare yourself for the enjoyment of making your own wine. I've said it once and will say it again, this forum is like getting a PHD in home winemaking.


Sorry for the long post.

Pepere aka Ron

 

[Brandst]

Also remember that wine making takes time and patience. Don't expect your reds to be great wines only a month or two out of the carboy. I tried my Pinot Noir when it was a month and a half in the bottle, it was ok, better than most $10 bottles I've had, but could already tell it will get better with age. But, I wanted to see how the progression is coming along and will try another in a month or two as well. Hey, I can always make more. I normally won't buy most reds in the store unless they are at least 3 years old, though I have found a couple that I liked that were younger.

Steve

 

[leelanau]

Must say I enjoyed Pepere's comment to Rexmore. I, too,am a newbie and just received my kit from George. You will see my questions regarding sanitizing on another forum area. I am trying to be "anal" about cleaning and sanitizing, also, making sure I read, read some more, and ask questions on the forum. It is like getting a fun phd in winemaking.Everybody here is great! Also, Rexmore, sometimes skeptical ruins the fun. I know as I am a skeptical person, but I am going into this winemaking thing knowing two things - kits make it easy and I am doing this for fun. Not to even have a winnning bottle of wine, but rather something thatis wine and something I can be proud of to share with people - even if it is average. That's a big accomplishment!

Leelanau

 

[Dean]

There are a LOT of wineries, all over the place, Napa and Sonoma included that use concentrates in their wines as well! So basically, they do a "Kit" but to the Nth degree. Where the difference comes is in the aging. Some higher end wine makers age in oak barrels, but they actually may have oak staves in the barrels to impart oak flavour since the barrels have been used for so long they are neutral in flavour. However, aging in oak barrels gives wine a concentration of flavours due to micro-oxidation and evaporation.

There are a lot of home wine makers that make kits and age them in barrels to achieve the same results. I've been considering a barrel or two for just that purpose.

 

[rexmor]

Thanks for the further replies....I definitely won't be trying the wine a month or two after bottling. In fact I may choose to bulk age, as well, just to prevent any such temptations. I remain amazed [skeptical?]that the wine can be so good to drink after 6-12 months, when commercial wines aren't even released for 2-3 years.

 

[winesnob]

Hey rexmor,
I'm the winesnob and a newbie. You post sounded almost identical to what I posted just a month ago. I hope all you wine making gods don't get frustrated with all the skepticism of the newbies. It must seem like a broken record.
I do drink $100+ bottles (not all the time of course), but I'm hoping to create a good $20 that I can call my own, and share with friends. I'm in my secondary right now, but with the ~30 bottles it makes, I plan on popping the cork on the first one after two months in the bottle. With an age worthy wine, I love to do this to see how the wine develops.

 

[Pepere]

Winesnob:


Appreciated your last post. I don't consider myself a snob but I've had a few of those high end bottles too, mostly for special occasions. Most recently a 1990 Dom "P". That's not what I'm looking to make at home. Like you said if I can get a quality chianti for dinner or a nice Pinot or a good buttery chard and have the satisfaction of having vinted it myself, what a charge.

If I can do it for an average of say 3 to 6 bucks a bottle it's something to take pride in and we had fun doing it. Want that real special bottle of Chateaunuef ?? go buy it and enjoy. Then again try a blind test with your kit wine and you might be surprised.

Pepere

 

[maize]

My personal experience with making wine from kits is that even a mediocre kit is much better than the $5 you pay to make it. I like big wines (mostly reds) and have had a bunch over the $50 mark. I've only been making kit wines for 20 months, but most would rank in the $15 - $25 range at a year for my likes (and I mean a good wine in that range - because there a lot of not good wine between 10 and 20 too!) I have some good friends who are starting a wine shop and have a really nice cellar. He practically demands a bottle of everything I make and is sharing a Yamhill Pinot with me. So these kits can make darn good wines - but I wouldn't compare them to a Silver Oak.


One of the tough things is that it takes 6-12 months to really find out how good the wine will be. If you play with them a little (oak, etc), you don't know what worked by the time you start a couple more kits. So you not only have to be patient with the aging process, but with the learning curve. Of course, that is also part of what makes this fun and rewarding. So you get more than just good drinking wine with these kits!

 

[rexmor]

Believe me, I'm not looking for a Silver Oak replacement. I've only had those three times in my life. Just something which would be a good replacement for the $15-25 bottles I usually drink on the weekends [week night dinnersareusually Woodbridge type wines, so I might be replacing those too!]. Also, I started this whole process as a means of learning some wine making techniques while waiting for my vines to mature. That mission is partly accomplished. I already felt much more confident in the second kit from the first.

 

[Angell Wine]

winesnob wrote: "I plan on popping the cork on the first one after two months in the bottle. With an age worthy wine, I love to do this to see how the wine develops. "


If you're planing on that, may I suggest that youuse a case of 375 ml bottles, that way you can try onetwice amonthand still not drink the whole kit in a year. 24 comes in a case.

 

[Waldo]

I would venture to guess that 90% of the wines being made by the good folks on this forum never last long enough for anyone to be able to "Stand Up And Testify" to its comaprison with the higher end commercial wines because we just drink it too quickly.Which is not a bad thing.

 

[paubin]

Hey there jcnoren. Wow the kits in canuckland are cheap!! 150 Canadian
dollars...why that should work out to like 15 US.
HEHEHEHEHE...HAHAHAAHAH...LOL...LMAO...Just jokeing jc

 

[pkcook]

Waldo's right. 6 gallon batches (30 bottles) seem like a lot when you first start making them, but when you give some away and enjoy some, before long the rack starts getting empty. That's why you keep your primaries/carboys full as ofteras you can

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