Skeeter Pee - Always a Struggle to Ferment Dry

[raelynn]

I consistently struggle to get Skeeter Pee to ferment dry. I have a harder time when following the original recipe which calls for 2 bottles of lemon juice at the start and 1 midway through. I've had more success adding 1 bottle at the start and the rest after fermentation is done, but it seems like no matter what I do, it gets stuck somewhere around 1.020-1.040. I have a temperature controlled box that keeps them at 72-75F, and use a degasser to whip air into them 2-3x/day. Right now, I have 2 batches that are stuck - one at 1.014 and one at 1.030. They look active and smell fine, but for the last week, they've maybe only come down 0.002. I added nutrient and energizer at 1.050 like the recipe calls. I am at a loss, especially because so many people here seem to get it to ferment dry at rocket speed. I don't know if I should pitch more yeast (esp with the one at 1.014) or what to do. If my husband didn't love this, I would just stick to Dragon Blood, which never fails me.

Also, I've ran into this regardless of whether I've used a slurry or EC-1118 (I followed the steps below, and it ferments great at the beginning, but then stalls).

Alternative to Yeast Slurry
Sanitize two quart jars.
Jar #1 - fill half full with mixed Skeeter Pee.
Jar #2 – fill ¼” with warm water, sprinkle yeast on top.
30 minutes later put 1 TBSP of Skeeter Pee in with the yeast. Swirl the jar to mix.
60 minutes later (when nice and foamy), add twice that amount of Skeeter Pee. Swirl.
Repeat every hour, adding enough Skeeter Pee to double the volume, and swirl. Continue until everything from jar #1 has been transferred to jar #2.
Let it sit overnight, swirl, and then pitch into the 5 gallon batch of Skeeter Pee.

 

[Jovimaple]

How long have they been stuck at those SG levels?

What was the starting SG for each? (My thought here is that it's starting too high and the yeast have reached their alcohol tolerance already).

Also, I wouldn't keep whipping oxygen in. The yeast need the O2 while building their colony; after that, it's not necessary anymore.

You can still stir to make sure the must is homogenized, but I wouldn't whip more O2 into it after about the first day or two.

I typically add the first 1/3 of the lemon juice during fermentation, and add the other 2/3 after it's complete.

 

[raelynn]

How long have they been stuck at those SG levels?

What was the starting SG for each? (My thought here is that it's starting too high and the yeast have reached their alcohol tolerance already).

Also, I wouldn't keep whipping oxygen in. The yeast need the O2 while building their colony; after that, it's not necessary anymore.

You can still stir to make sure the must is homogenized, but I wouldn't whip more O2 into it after about the first day or two.

I typically add the first 1/3 of the lemon juice during fermentation, and add the other 2/3 after it's complete.

The one that I pitched EC-1118 in has been stuck for 2 weeks at 1.014. I started it June 13 and the OG was 1.095, but with EC-1118 it should be fine. It's sitting at under 12% abv right now. This one had 2/3 of the lemon juice at the beginning and went really slow before it stalled.

I started another one July 9 with 1/3 of the lemon juice, using DB slurry that originally had K1-V1116. It also had OG 1.095 and is stuck at 1.030. The ABV is under 9% in it.

I'm at a loss with what to do with them. The first one is probably too close to done to re-pitch yeast, but maybe not?

 

[Jovimaple]

I had issues with K1-V1116 with a key lime skeeter pee that never did finish below about 1.010. I ended up putting it under airlock and letting it sit for a few months to even get it down to that.

If it were me, I probably would do a new starter with fresh EC-1118 for each and repitch, just to see if they will finish off.

If that doesn't work in another week or so, try racking and let them sit under airlock for a couple months and see if that makes a difference.

I don't think it's your technique at all. It could be the brand of lemon juice or just the fact that it can be tricky due to all the acid.

Edited to add: I have a Tilt hydrometer and so I checked my last 2 batches. One fermented to dry in 9 days and the other took 18. I use the same recipe every time, in the same room with the same ambient temps. Yeast can be fickle!

 

[raelynn]

I had issues with K1-V1116 with a key lime skeeter pee that never did finish below about 1.010. I ended up putting it under airlock and letting it sit for a few months to even get it down to that.

If it were me, I probably would do a new starter with fresh EC-1118 for each and repitch, just to see if they will finish off.

If that doesn't work in another week or so, try racking and let them sit under airlock for a couple months and see if that makes a difference.

I don't think it's your technique at all. It could be the brand of lemon juice or just the fact that it can be tricky due to all the acid.

Edited to add: I have a Tilt hydrometer and so I checked my last 2 batches. One fermented to dry in 9 days and the other took 18. I use the same recipe every time, in the same room with the same ambient temps. Yeast can be fickle!

I used Realemon brand lemon juice, which is the only kind I can get here that isn't Walmart/store brand. Is there any risk of a weird taste if I pitch new yeast and they don't finish off? Should I also use nutrient or energizer? Thank you for your help!

 

[Jovimaple]

I wouldn't use nutrient or energizer at this point.

I don't think there will be any issues with taste, especially if you make sure it has cleared before you bottle. During the clearing process, the yeast should all drop out anyway.

 

[raelynn]

I wouldn't use nutrient or energizer at this point.

I don't think there will be any issues with taste, especially if you make sure it has cleared before you bottle. During the clearing process, the yeast should all drop out anyway.

Thank you for your help! I opted to repitch yeast in the older of the two batches on Tuesday, since it looks like the other is making tiny, slow progress still. This morning, it looks active so fingers crossed. I really want my primaries back because I have other wine I want to make!

I tested the pH in both batches as well. The one with 2 bottles (that I just repitched yeast in) is 2.55 and the one with 1 bottle is 2.95.

 

[cmason1957]

Thank you for your help! I opted to repitch yeast in the older of the two batches on Tuesday, since it looks like the other is making tiny, slow progress still. This morning, it looks active so fingers crossed. I really want my primaries back because I have other wine I want to make!

I tested the pH in both batches as well. The one with 2 bottles (that I just repitched yeast in) is 2.55 and the one with 1 bottle is 2.95.

You may have a big challenge to get yeast happy in that 2.55 Ph one, yeast aren't very happy much below 2.8 (and some would say higher than that even)

 

[raelynn]

You may have a big challenge to get yeast happy in that 2.55 Ph one, yeast aren't very happy much below 2.8 (and some would say higher than that even)

Wouldn't everyone who follows the recipe (which calls for 2 x 32oz bottles of lemon juice at the start) run into this same low pH issue? Should I try to do anything about the pH in that batch?

 

[ratflinger]

I make mine pretty much according to the directions, at least 2/3 of the lemon juice up front. I pitch the yeast and when it stops it's done. I don't check the SG, cause at that point I don't care. I just add some kmeta & sorbate, & sugar and let it sit, to verify the yeasts are dead. I then finish it up and bottle. I like it. Sometimes we tend to over-think this stuff. If you want a little more ABV then add some Everclear.

 

[cmason1957]

Wouldn't everyone who follows the recipe (which calls for 2 x 32oz bottles of lemon juice at the start) run into this same low pH issue? Should I try to do anything about the pH in that batch?

I've never measured the Ph of skeeter pee when I have made it, I have to be honest. I do measure the SG, since I like it a little bit higher than the normal recipe calls for. It has been more than a few years since I last made it and I'm trying to remember if I followed the directions or not. I might have only added one bottle at the start, one bottle later and then a third bottle when I racked it to a carboy. I don't know what good thing you could to help the Ph, without affecting the taste. I just know yeast aren't happy at 2.55 Ph. I think if I wanted to try to get that fermenting more what I would do is start with four or five packages of EC-1118 yeast, rehydrate them and add Go-Ferm, let them sit overnight and grow a really, really good population of happy yeast. Then add about the same amount of your must as liquid to another bucket, let that go for a couple of hours and see if the yeast keep eating. Then add double the amount of wine you added the time before, wait a few hours, repeat, doubling the amount of wine you add each time.

That's my best guess and normal way to deal with ferments that give me issues. It isn't fun and takes a good amount of time.

 

[raelynn]

I make mine pretty much according to the directions, at least 2/3 of the lemon juice up front. I pitch the yeast and when it stops it's done. I don't check the SG, cause at that point I don't care. I just add some kmeta & sorbate, & sugar and let it sit, to verify the yeasts are dead. I then finish it up and bottle. I like it. Sometimes we tend to over-think this stuff. If you want a little more ABV then add some Everclear.

If alcohol wasn't so expensive in Canada, I'd buy Everclear and fortify. The cost of alcohol up here was part of the reason we decided to start making out own.

 

[raelynn]

I've never measured the Ph of skeeter pee when I have made it, I have to be honest. I do measure the SG, since I like it a little bit higher than the normal recipe calls for. It has been more than a few years since I last made it and I'm trying to remember if I followed the directions or not. I might have only added one bottle at the start, one bottle later and then a third bottle when I racked it to a carboy. I don't know what good thing you could to help the Ph, without affecting the taste. I just know yeast aren't happy at 2.55 Ph. I think if I wanted to try to get that fermenting more what I would do is start with four or five packages of EC-1118 yeast, rehydrate them and add Go-Ferm, let them sit overnight and grow a really, really good population of happy yeast. Then add about the same amount of your must as liquid to another bucket, let that go for a couple of hours and see if the yeast keep eating. Then add double the amount of wine you added the time before, wait a few hours, repeat, doubling the amount of wine you add each time.

That's my best guess and normal way to deal with ferments that give me issues. It isn't fun and takes a good amount of time.

I normally wouldn't measure the pH of Skeeter Pee either but I just got a pH meter and thought I'd play around with it. I think I will just see if the re-pitched low pH batch will do anything else, and if not, I'm gonna call it, since it's over 11% and I want the primary freed up. Next time I know not to put 2 bottles of lemon juice in.

 

[ratflinger]

11% is about as good as you're going to get. Also, you might try distillers yeast, as it's good for 18%+, but I have no idea on the flavor impact.

 

[winemaker81]

11% is about as good as you're going to get. Also, you might try distillers yeast, as it's good for 18%+, but I have no idea on the flavor impact.

He could start with another yeast, and when it quits, add a starter of the distiller's yeast, which will minimize any impact of the distiller's yeast.

 

[Jusatele]

I do a batch of the ole Sketer Pee each spring, love the stuff, and always bottle with a high gravity but I am doing a natural carbonation. I think just the nature of the product tends to have a very high original gravity also.
I like my finished product cold on a summers hot day bottled in 16 oz flip tops in a ice bath while lounging by the pool.