Re-using Yeast - Is this possible?

[cocroach]

I recently started a RJS Cru Select 16L Nebbiolo kit that I added a left over Mosti Mondiale Barolo All-Grape Pack. I also used liquid Wyeast (Chianti) instead of the EC-1118 dry yeast pack.

The rep at the wine store said that I could harvest the used yeast from the fermenter, store it in the fridge and re-use it with another kit. Has anyone tried this? Is there any benefit to doing this, other than cost-savings? (Liquid yeast is waaaayy more expensive that dry yeast.) Would I get the same fermentation activity? I assumed that this yeast would be mostly dead.

I am planning on racking it to the primary today and wondered if I should go through the trouble. I also don't want to wreck a good kit using reused yeast.

 

[kevinlfifer]

We do it all the time for Skeeter. I wouldn't for grape wine though.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I harvest yeast when making beer, but as for the EC-1118, I don't see any benefit when a packet costs approx. $0.95.

 

[Deezil]

I also used liquid Wyeast (Chianti) instead of the EC-1118 dry yeast pack.

I harvest yeast when making beer, but as for the EC-1118, I don't see any benefit when a packet costs approx. $0.95.

Aren't those Wyeast selections like 7-10 bucks?

I've seen a lot of questions about this lately, and it can be done..
Maybe it's time to put together a Yeast Washing post

It's the same as what is done with beer yeast - siphoning off the yeast & gross lees, then separating the yeast from the lees and encouraging a new generation to grow through the use of a lightly-sugared, highly-nutritious must

 

[Pumpkinman]

Deezil, yeah man expensive stuff, even the White Labs beer yeast (I prefer White Labs over Wyeast) are fairly expensive, I usually pitch 2 vials if I'm not making a yeast starter, this adds up fast.

 

[cocroach]

Luckily, I got the yeast as a freebee with my order. It retails here for $9.95, with one pack being enough to inoculate 23 litres of must. Apparently, the liquid yeast also has a very short life compared to the dry yeast. The expiry on these is typically only 6 months and it needs to be kept refrigerated.

A representative from another wine store I spoke too said they did a blind taste test with their customers after they had split a 6 gallon kit 2012 California Petite Sirah/Zinfandel into six 1 gallon batches and used five different liquid yeasts and the dry yeast and they said that the dry kit yeast ranked the lowest in terms of taste and aroma. (See link).

http://www.thehomevintner.com/newsletter/125

Deezil, separating the lees from the yeast and regrowing it? How does one go about doing that? I've only done a few kits, but the stuff at the bottom of the pail looks like all the same gunk to me.

I'm intrigued, but I'm starting to wonder if its worth it...

 

[Pumpkinman]

cocroach,

A representative from another wine store I spoke too said they did a blind taste test with their customers after they had split a 6 gallon kit 2012 California Petite Sirah/Zinfandel into six 1 gallon batches and used five different liquid yeasts and the dry yeast and they said that the dry kit yeast ranked the lowest in terms of taste and aroma. (See link).

IF they were testing EC-1118 as the dry yeast, it imparts almost nothing to the wine," relatively neutral flavor and aroma contribution are characteristics of this yeast.
This is a very poor test if they used EC-1118, normally we would choose yeast that are suited for the varietal that you are making, or a yeast that will impart a sensory profile that you are looking for, and to be frank, it really seems like an easy way to try to get winemakers to buy the more expensive liquid yeast.
I would guarantee that they used yeasts that were more suited for this style of wine.
I use dry yeast exclusively when making wine, you need to hydrate the yeast to ensure that there is a big enough "colony" of yeast cells to get a healthy fermentation, but there is so much more to fermenting that we could start a long discussion that veers off the topic.

As far as harvesting yeast, yes it is possible, is it worth it, that is entirely up to you.

 

[cocroach]

Thanks Pumpkinman. I guess that could definitely be a just be a ploy to sell the expensive yeast. I have heard conflicting opinions on the kit yeast that the manufacturers provide - one side saying the manufacturers select the yeast most likely to yield the best results, which a lot of the time for red seems to be the EC-1118. I'm surprised they don't include other options. So far, I have been less than impressed with the few kits that I have made. They just don't seem to stand up to some of the commercial wines in terms of body or tannins.

I'm hoping to experiment with different strains of yeast to better understand what they do.

Maybe I will decide tomorrow, whether I will try harvesting the yeast in my pail...

 

[Pumpkinman]

The reason that Kit manufacturers don't add other yeasts possibly more suited for the particular wine is that there are other issues that are associated with some of the more varietal specific yeasts, such as nutrition requirements, Alcohol tolerances, temperature tolerances, sensory effects and so on.

Kits are balanced and tested, manufactured to produce a decent wine in a reduced time frame, the yeast that they've selected works efficiently within those parameters.

EC-1118 is a workhorse yeast, it will ferment a brick! It is not only used to ferment, it can be used to restart stuck fermentations, it will ferment over a wide temp range, between 50° -86°, has an alcohol tolerance of 18%, an extremely low production of foam, volatile acid and hydrogen sulfide (H2S)- this is the reason for most kits containing this yeast.

I believe that altering the kit, such as replacing the yeast may void the warranty.....

Now that I got that out of my system...LOL.... I love to play with different yeasts, I've experimented with many different yeasts, I will tell you from experience, the yeast you choose will have a major impact on the finished wine.

When choosing to use other yeasts, you must first decide what you want to get out of the wine, what characteristics, what sensory profile, but be sure to look into the nutrient requirements, temp ranges and tolerances as well.
You can actually select the same yeasts that many commercial wineries use worldwide to create a wine much like the wines that you pay a lot of money for.

Here are a few links to give you a better understanding of various yeasts, I usually stick with Lalvin, just a personal preference:

Click Here to check out the most common yeast used in home winemaking.

Click here to get a better understanding of Lalvins complete Yeast Chart

Click here to access the Grape and Yeast pairing to help guide you in selecting the best yeast for your stylistic goals and given conditions, this guide and the yeast chart are my "Go To" reference for yeasts.

 

[cocroach]

Pumpkinman, thanks for the information and the great references!! I am really looking forward to experimenting with some these. I've been on sort of a mission since I started wine-making to recreate the flavour of a Barolo (kit) I once tried eight years ago that just about knocked me off my feet. It was like nothing I've ever tasted - it was like drinking smoke, tar and leather straight and I loved it. To date is the best wine I've had, even compared to commercial makes. Sadly, I have no idea what this kit was or how it was made, or if I can even match it, but I am going to try- hence why I am looking to experience with yeast! I did see a few yeast strains under on the Lallemand link under Nebbiolo that look promising.

As for harvesting this yeast in my pail, I think I'll go ahead and do it and maybe use in on a test batch of blackberry wine (just to see what happens)