Plastic vs Glass

[vernsgal]

I have a question regarding the new " plastic " carboys. Though cheaper in price, are they as good as the glass. How would they be for bulk aging?

 

[cpfan]

I have used three different brands of plastic carboys dating back to 2001, so I wouldn't say that they are 'new'. There is also at least one other brand on the market now. And I do NOT include the jugs intended for water coolers as a carboy.

Of the ones that I have used, I would say that the Better Bottle brand is the best. However, I would not recommend any of them for bulk aging.

Steve

 

[Rocky]

I have more than 25 carboys of all sizes and only two of them are Better Bottles, 1 6-gallon and 1 5-gallon. I prefer glass (duh!) but I think the BB's have their place. First, they are lighter and easier to handle and they don't shatter if you happen to drop one or bang it against another carboy. I like the wide mouth for adding chemicals, mixing, de-gassing and such and that is how I use them. They are also handy for blending wines. I do not use them for long term (bulk) aging and I cannot use them as a receiving vessel when transfer pumping or filtering because they cannot withstand the pressure of the vacuum. Lastly, and this may just be me, I never feel that I have completely cleaned them as I do with glass.

Hope this helps.

 

[robie]

Over the years, I have heard many pros and cons, concerning the Better Bottle.

Most seem to believe one should not use them for bulk storage. I believe scientifically, they are no more permeable to air than solid glass. They are not ordinary plastic, which is not good for wine storage.

I like to use them.
You dare not try to pick one up, if it is filled with wine and does not have a bung in place.
You can't use a vacuum pump to transfer wine INTO a Better Bottle.
You can't use a bottle brush to clean them, as it will scratch the inside surface.
They will not break.
They are lighter.
They will not cause the air lock liquid to be sucked into the carboy if the atmospheric pressure changes. They simply expand and contract with such changes.

I use both glass and Better Bottles and appreciate both for what they are.

 

[Boatboy24]

robie pretty much summed up my sentiments. I've had wine in better bottles for a couple months (2-3 tops) and haven't seen any adverse impacts. I made the mistake of trying to clean my first one with a bottle/carboy brush and scratched it a bit. It still works just fine, but I make sure to sanitize the bejeezus out of it before I put any wine into it.

 

[BernardSmith]

I don't have a ported Better Bottle but I see from their web site that they suggest that you can use their flow valves to rack without siphoning (although using gravity ) by placing one carboy (the source) above the destination carboy as if you were siphoning but then connecting the the flow valve in the source to the flow valve in the destination carboy. The wine from the source carboy fills up the destination carboy from the bottom up , driving the O2 in the carboy out of the neck of the destination. Their site has a graphic that indicates that you can adjust the adapter so that the flow tube inside the carboy can be above any sediment. I guess that although you cannot use a vacuum to transfer wine if you use Better Bottle carboys, this flow valve looks interesting
http://www.better-bottle.com/pdf/brochure_10-02_web.pdf

 

[Rocky]

It is not so much permeability that I am concerned with in a Better Bottle, is it the surface integrity of the plastic. A number of people have pointed out that even a bottle brush can scratch the surface. A scratch is a place for organisms to lurk. If you have ever seen a scanning electron microscope image of plastic you would think you are looking at a sponge. I have no dog in this fight. I am just saying for the peace of mind, I like glass. I know that it has the disadvantages of expense, breakage and weight and I can accept and work with that. My primary concern is sanitary equipment. Poor sanitary measures can ruin a whole batch of wine. In my opinion, glass is easier and more reliably cleaned and sanitized and thus more sanitary than plastic.

I allow that plastic has some attractive advantages (mostly cost, weight and less chance of breakage) but to me it is a risk/return decision. I will still be friends with all those who use plastic.

 

[GreginND]

I have only used glass but I would love a plastic carboy with an accordion top that would allow my to raise and lower it to fit the amount of wine. That would avoid the need to top up.

Or do they make impermeable PET plastic bags for bulk wine storage?

 

[deboard]

I use better bottles exclusively, I bulk age in them and have had zero problems. Truthfully I would probably prefer to have glass just so I could use a vacuum pump. If I ever get a dedicated winemaking area I probably will start using glass again.

I love winemaking, and one day I found a crack in one of my glass carboys. I know the chances of a catastrophic fault is very slim, but if that happens, and I unload 6 gallons of red wine on our upstairs carpet, I'm pretty sure that will be the end of my winemaking career! That's ignoring the chance of bodily harm.

The flexibility of the better bottles make it both easier and at the same time more annoying to move. I can manage a 3 gallon with the airlock on, but a 5 gallon is just too big, so I have to remove it before moving it or it will suck the airlock liquid down into the wine. But they are so much lighter it's worth it.

 

[Runningwolf]

I would not believe scratches would be that detrimental to plastic Better Bottles as far as attracting nasties. Well that is until I started cleaning SS tanks with scatches and guess where all the tartrates and everything else is first attracted to. Thats right, where ever there is a scratch or seam. It also requires a lot of extra effort to scrub it off. I'm a believer now.

I own several five and three gallon BB's and rarely use them. I bought them because they're cheap ($15.00) and nice to have as back ups. Other than the vacuum issue, I would not hesitate using them for short term aging (4-6 mo).

What I have not heard anyone bring up is the life span. A carboy is forever or until there's an accident. A better bottle...I have no idea.

 

[bg7mm]

I have three 6 gallon plastic carboys with spigots, I use them to transfer wine into i'm filtering then easy fill of the bottles with the added spigots. when cleaning i rinse a lot then add a strong dose of k-meta and seal the carboy until the next use. if you stick your nose in that carboy after a day or so of a gallon of water and 4 tablespoon mix of k-meta, you'll know theres nothing in this world that will grow in the carboy. the smell of gas is so strong it will knock you back. this setup works great for me and ease of bottling is so easy. if bulk aging i'll use glass. also use glass as secondary fermentations. only use plastic when I transfer wine during filtering then I bottle imediately

 

[Runningwolf]

Hey kg7mm, I do the exact same thing with all of my glass carboys. I do not do it with the few Better Bottles I have though. Meta will deteriorate plastic milk jugs after a long period of time. Will it do it to Better Bottles (I don't know)?

 

[vernsgal]

Well, I think I'll just stick with my glass ones. The Better Bottles have only just showed up here in my local wine supply haunts. It was suggested to me to just stick with the glass, thought I'd throw it out here and see what you all thought.The glass is heavy (6 gallon) I have to heave it on to a chair ,then stand on the chair and lift it the rest of the way.Lol(I should mention I'm just over 5 feet tall) But honestly can't think of any better weights I'd prefer to lift.