Finer Wine Kit Oak

[Vlabruz]

I have a Forte cab and super tuscan at about 1 year in bulk right now. I'm thinking of bottling half and bulking the rest. Could I benefit from aging with oak cubes? I have med French oak. I filtered these wines too. Will oak cubes cause sediment?
Thanks

 

[Ohio Bob]

I have a Forte cab and super tuscan at about 1 year in bulk right now. I'm thinking of bottling half and bulking the rest. Could I benefit from aging with oak cubes? I have med French oak.
Thanks

If you want bolder reds I would add the oak to both. If you like lighter, more towards rose, I would skip the oak.

 

[winemaker81]

Even small amounts of oak add complexity to a red. I add between 1/2 oz and 1-1/2 oz per 23 liters to all reds. I use oak as a seasoning, not a flavoring, so its effects are not necessarily obvious unless you're comparing oaked and unoaked versions of the same wine.

I'd add oak to both wines and bulk age another 6 months. The cubes are expended at 3 months, but we have anecdotal evidence that leaving the oak in the wine performs a "smoothing" effect on the wine. I've had wines where the winemaker put oak in for a short time and then pulled it, and these always taste harsh to me, even with aging.

There is a possibility of some sediment. At bottling time I rack all but the last bottle (or so) from the carboy into a bucket, and bottled the bucket. Then I bottle the wine left in the carboy, so if there is any sediment, I have 1 muddy bottle (which tastes the same, just unsightly) and the remainder is clear.

 

[Vlabruz]

Even small amounts of oak add complexity to a red. I add between 1/2 oz and 1-1/2 oz per 23 liters to all reds. I use oak as a seasoning, not a flavoring, so its effects are not necessarily obvious unless you're comparing oaked and unoaked versions of the same wine.

I'd add oak to both wines and bulk age another 6 months. The cubes are expended at 3 months, but we have anecdotal evidence that leaving the oak in the wine performs a "smoothing" effect on the wine. I've had wines where the winemaker put oak in for a short time and then pulled it, and these always taste harsh to me, even with aging.

There is a possibility of some sediment. At bottling time I rack all but the last bottle (or so) from the carboy into a bucket, and bottled the bucket. Then I bottle the wine left in the carboy, so if there is any sediment, I have 1 muddy bottle (which tastes the same, just unsightly) and the remainder is clear.

So I originally used the oak that came with the kit. I racked it off after about 2 months. I assume I should've left it longer. I'm trying g to figure out how to make a bolder , not fruit forward red from a kit.

 

[winemaker81]

So I originally used the oak that came with the kit. I racked it off after about 2 months. I assume I should've left it longer. I'm trying g to figure out how to make a bolder , not fruit forward red from a kit.

I was going to ask about the Forte oak, which IIRC, is 1.5 oz. Leaving it longer would have made a difference.

Do you taste much oak, or is the fruit completely overshadowing it? Some folks will say you can't over-oak a wine, but I know from harsh experience that is incorrect, and it doesn't necessarily mellow out with time.

This is difficult since I can't taste the wine. Going blindly, I'd add 1/2 to 1 oz to a 23 liter carboy and bulk age a minimum of 3 months, 6 is better.

For future wines, add the oak and leave it in for the year. That's what I do with my neutral barrels.

 

[cmason1957]

So I originally used the oak that came with the kit. I racked it off after about 2 months. I assume I should've left it longer. I'm trying g to figure out how to make a bolder , not fruit forward red from a kit.

What I do for many kit wines is add extra tannin during fermentation (generally 1 heaping Tablespoon per Kit), and add some more during the resting time after the first racking. Then I add the oak that came with the kit for at least 3 months and if I want more 1 Winestick (Stix Alternatives) for at least 6 months. I like the Winestix as it provides both long and short grain parts to the wine. Rumour has it that makes a difference, I just know I like it. and I prefer French Oak Med or Med+ to American Oak.

 

[Ericphotoart]

A month ago I added pocket D, superkleer and oak cubes and I plan to rack it today, sanitize the cubes, add them back to the wine and age for the next 5 months. Should I add kmeta too? It's Cabernet Forte.

 

[winemaker81]

A month ago I added pocket D, superkleer and oak cubes and I plan to rack it today, sanitize the cubes, add them back to the wine and age for the next 5 months. Should I add kmeta too? It's Cabernet Forte.

Yes add k-meta.

 

[globalnavigator]

I just racked a FWK Novello from the fermentation bucket to a carboy. I decided to add some oak cubes from an open package. Now I'm wondering whether I screwed up by just dropping them in without any sanitizing. If so, how would I correct from here. If not, would 2 months be good enough before bottling?

 

[winemaker81]

I just racked a FWK Novello from the fermentation bucket to a carboy. I decided to add some oak cubes from an open package. Now I'm wondering whether I screwed up by just dropping them in without any sanitizing. If so, how would I correct from here. If not, would 2 months be good enough before bottling?

Oak in the original packaging, kept cool and dry, is fine.

My anecdotal experience is cubes are expended in about 3 months, and leaving them in longer has a "smoothing" effect, where the oak is not as harsh.

Note that I add oak adjuncts with the intention of leaving it in for the duration, which can be 12 months. I measure the oak for that need, e.g., for most reds I add 1 to 1.5 oz per 19-23 liters of wine. Depending on your tastes, you may want more or less.

I haven't made a Novello, but the Forte kits I've made had 1.5 oz cubes, which was good for those kits.

YMMV

 

[cmason1957]

I have a Novello kit (Sangiovese) and a Tavola kit (Southern Rhone) that I just added a winestix to both. These will stay in for at least 3 months and probably more like 6. The southern Rhone got a Med+ American Oak and the Sangiovese got French Oak Med +. I have been somewhat disappointed with the Southern Rhone so far, hopefully some tannin and oak will help things.

Oak is such a personal thing. I like more than other folks like.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I also will agree that sanitizing the cubes is not necessary. I use 4 oz of cubes per 5/6 gallons of wine. Sometimes twice. So 4oz for 3 months, rack, then a new batch of 4oz of cubes for another 3 months. It’s also possible I can’t tell what an over-oaked wine tastes like.

 

[globalnavigator]

I also will agree that sanitizing the cubes is not necessary. I use 4 oz of cubes per 5/6 gallons of wine. Sometimes twice. So 4oz for 3 months, rack, then a new batch of 4oz of cubes for another 3 months. It’s also possible I can’t tell what an over-oaked wine tastes like.

Good to hear. I used 2.5 oz for my 6 gallon carboy and intend on 2 months. I understand that longer is (mostly) recommended, but it is a quick to drink FW kit.

 

[winemaker81]

I also will agree that sanitizing the cubes is not necessary. I use 4 oz of cubes per 5/6 gallons of wine. Sometimes twice. So 4oz for 3 months, rack, then a new batch of 4oz of cubes for another 3 months. It’s also possible I can’t tell what an over-oaked wine tastes like.

This is among the things that make giving winemaking advice difficult -- individual taste. Bob's taste is obviously different from mine, yet we're both right.

My caution to folks experimenting with oak is to go cautiously -- as I'm fond of saying, it's easier to add more than it is to take some out.

Some folks will claim that it's not possible to over-oak a wine, that time will fix it -- this is not guaranteed. I've had over-oaked wine that 5 years later still tasted like the bar we were sitting at.

The wine itself will determine how much oak it can handle. Generally speaking, higher body and ABV wines can have more oak without the oak being overpowering. I've also proven to my own satisfaction that glycerin will mellow oak -- my 2019 second run was great with glycerin, but the ones bottled without were undrinkable.

If anyone oaks a wine beyond their liking? Blend it with an unoaked wine.

 

[Tripled92]

This is among the things that make giving winemaking advice difficult -- individual taste. Bob's taste is obviously different from mine, yet we're both right.

My caution to folks experimenting with oak is to go cautiously -- as I'm fond of saying, it's easier to add more than it is to take some out.

Some folks will claim that it's not possible to over-oak a wine, that time will fix it -- this is not guaranteed. I've had over-oaked wine that 5 years later still tasted like the bar we were sitting at.

The wine itself will determine how much oak it can handle. Generally speaking, higher body and ABV wines can have more oak without the oak being overpowering. I've also proven to my own satisfaction that glycerin will mellow oak -- my 2019 second run was great with glycerin, but the ones bottled without were undrinkable.

If anyone oaks a wine beyond their liking? Blend it with an unoaked wine.

Yeah agreed. I tell people if you are new experiencing with oak, stick to the medium and medium+ toast with Hungarian or French. Stay away from American because it has a higher chance of being over oaked especially a heavy toast.