Oak Advice

[bluerdg]

I'm having a blast with this wine making thing. I got equipment for my B-Day last month and started a Pinot Grigio Boxed Juice kit the next day. I started a blackberry/blueberry with fruit we picked at a local farm this morning. I've got a Wine Expert California Trinity Red that came with my equipment that I want to start soon. I've read that the Wine Expert reds tend to be a little weak on body so I definitely want to add some oak. My question is, I've got oak, it was rough cut out of Arkansas when I got it and I planed it myself to build kitchen cabinets. I've got some scraps that would work nicely. How should I prep it or does it matter (2x2 blocks or do I need to dice it up finer?)

 

[MFC]

Most oak added to wine is toasted to varying degrees ( light, medium, heavy). They come in spirals chips and cubes. It costs 2 bucks for 2 onces of oak chips (enough for 5 gallons). I would buy some at your local brewshop or online so that you do not run the risk of ruining your wine. You would have to ensure that the oak you have is not coated in anything and even then you would have to toast it with a propane torch, it's really not worth the effort unless you are scrapping and retoasting barrels. When my barrels are loosing oak flavor I add chips.

 

[JohnT]

Agree with above, but...

You need to realize that decorative oak is not always the best variety of the wood for wine. The winemaking shop will supply a variety of oaks that that been found to work well with wine and give great flavor. Typically, there are three choices, American, French, and European.

Oak also comes in staves (large strips of wood), but I think that these will be too big to use with a carboy.

When it comes to oak, most agree the the bigger the piece of wood, the better. A cask is better than a couple of staves, a couple of staves is better than oak beads, oak beads is better than oak chips, and oak chips is way better than oak "dust".

I would recommend that you go with oak "beads" or cubes. Avoid powdered oak like the plague!.

My preference is European (or Hungarian) medium toast. I find that this will give the best chance at extracting "vanilla" compounds that I really like. This is only my own preference, I would suggest that you try all of the types of oak and all of the degrees of toast to find what you prefer.

Also, You want to have your wine sitting on the oak for about 6 to 8 weeks. I find that after 8 weeks the wine will begin to take on some rather bitter tannins from the wood.

 

[cpfan]

I've got a Wine Expert California Trinity Red that came with my equipment that I want to start soon. I've read that the Wine Expert reds tend to be a little weak on body so I definitely want to add some oak.

I haven't made this kit, but it probably contains oak. Have you opened the box to look?

More oak, to the best of my knowledge, will not increase the body in a wine. To my tastes, increasing the oak level in a weaker wine can make the wine VERY OAKY tasting. The oak will mellow over time, but most beginning wine makers don't want to wait three years (or whatever).

I have a merlot from a good quality kit that I over-oaked. Even a year later it was too oaky for our tastes (we are not oak-heads). It has just passed 4 years in bottle, and I quite enjoyed the bottle that I opened recently. It is still a bit oakier than I usually like, but I felt that I could taste the wine more than the oak.

Steve

 

[MN-winer]

I'm not hijacking this thread but.....

I generally like heavy oak flavor in a wine. Which type is best?
American, French or Hungarian. Heavy toast or medium?

I use the spirals and would like to stock up sometime with some. Last time I got American Medium toast but if there is a more "oaky" one I'll get that.

 

[JohnT]

I'm not hijacking this thread but.....

I generally like heavy oak flavor in a wine. Which type is best?
American, French or Hungarian. Heavy toast or medium?

I use the spirals and would like to stock up sometime with some. Last time I got American Medium toast but if there is a more "oaky" one I'll get that.

Hello,

My name if JOHN,

And I'm an OAKAHOLIC!!!!


Question, Are these spirals made up of compacted sawdust? If they are, Try the same in oak beads!

I have tired them all. As stated above, I like to get at the vanilla compounds that casked wines are famous for. I so not like wine that tastes like sawdust, but wines that have a wood flavor (I hope that I am making sense).

With above in mind, I prefer Medium Toast Hungarian. This seems (to me) to be the best producer of the flavor compounds I like.

 

[MN-winer]

Thanks John - I'm an oakaholic as well. Ive made mostly WE kits and I am now realizing that some of the earlier kits I made are not very oaked. I compare them to store bought wines of the same variety and I just don't like the ones I make as much. I've determined that some of my wines are too young but also that oak is missing.
I purchased a couple of spirals from Midwest supplies last year and I've used them. They are solid oak, not dust. I'm just not sure what type of oak to get. Which oak gives off the most distinct flavor and aroma of oak?
I assume the heavier the toast the better (for me anyway).

 

[JohnT]

Thanks John - I'm an oakaholic as well. Ive made mostly WE kits and I am now realizing that some of the earlier kits I made are not very oaked. I compare them to store bought wines of the same variety and I just don't like the ones I make as much. I've determined that some of my wines are too young but also that oak is missing.
I purchased a couple of spirals from Midwest supplies last year and I've used them. They are solid oak, not dust. I'm just not sure what type of oak to get. Which oak gives off the most distinct flavor and aroma of oak?
I assume the heavier the toast the better (for me anyway).

Ok,

As I understand it, The three stages of toast will give forth different flavors.

Light toast- This will impart a true "wood" flavor to the wine. The aroma and (for the most part) the taste are much them same as if you were to smell seasoned, dried oak at the lumberyard.

Medium Toast - The amount of heat is used to simply produce a very thin layer of char. Just below the "char" layer is a layer of carmalized wood compounds that is almost identical (at a molecular level) to the flavor compounds in Vanilla. Given enough time and wine exposure, these compounds are imparted to the wine. (again, this is my favorite).

Heavy toast - I find that this level imparts a "smokey wood" flavor to wine. Not to say that this is bad.

As stated before, I would make it a point to try all three to see which one you prefer.

 

[Luc]

Be aware that there are several kinds of oak.

If you add the wrong one your wine will be bitter as hell.

So if you are not sure which kind it is, you are playing with fire and
can ruin your wine completely.

I am no oak expert, I do remember reading somewhere however that there is white and red oak and one of these sorts is the bad one.

Stick to the one that HBS are selling and your playing safe.

Luc