Need help with PH.

[Pumpkinman]

I received my Milwaukee PH 55 Ph meter, calibrated it and started testing the PH of the 6 batches I have brewing.

A few batches of reds have real low PH, 2.7 and 2.9, I've been researching for hrs about raising PH and what to use to do it.

One is still fermenting, the other batch has been in the carboy for a week.

I've read about Potassium Bicarbonate, Calcium, Acidex, Sihadex, MLF...my head hurts...lol

Can anyone recommend a tried and tested method of raising PH, or am I rushing things, should I wait and see what happens as the wine ages?

I also tested Acid using djrockinsteve's How To Take An Acid Test With A ph Meter, and finally, I tested using a SO2 titration kit, I'm on a roll...lol

No that I have this info, I would like to use it to my advantage to make decent wine.

Thanks in advance!

Tom

 

[Flame145]

I always tried to make initial adjustments prior to fermentation. If u need to adjust afterwards I have used potasium bicarnate which will lower your TA and raise your Ph.
Use calcium carbonate prior to fermentation and potasium bi carbonate after fermentation. There are various wine calculators you can use which you input the volume, your initial ta etc...
When making adjustments, always start by only adding half the amount, then re-check your numbers so this way you don't overshoot it

 

[Pumpkinman]

Thanks for the advice!
Yea, in retrospect, I wish that I would have done a lot of due diligence in the research of wine making before I started.
I actually started after trying a wine that a buddy had made, he just pours the contents of a few pails in a demi John and puts an airlock on it and waits a year or two....I figured...well damn...if it is that easy....LMAO!!! It really surprises me just how many people that I know that have been doing it like that for years.
I never thought making wine was this involved, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I really enjoy it, but I know that I'm way behind on a lot of stuff and I am trying to get things right, while keeping it fun.
Once I realized that I needed testers and stabilizers and such, I jumped right on it and ordered as much as I could...I'm trying to figure out how to justify buying a Vinmetrica ..lol

Use calcium carbonate prior to fermentation and potassium bi carbonate after fermentation.

Thanks! this is exactly what I was looking for!

When making adjustments, always start by only adding half the amount, then re-check your numbers so this way you don't overshoot it

Should I wait before re-checking, or will the PH raise fairly quick?
Thanks again for your help!

Tom

 

[winemaker_3352]

I would not use the calcium carbonate - I would stick with the potassium bi carbonate post fermentation - and I would only do this if you have a way to cold stabilize. Cold stabilizing will drop out the KHCO3 from the wine - if this is not done - it may not drop all of it out and leave an unpleasant aftertaste...

You could also blend it..

 

[Pumpkinman]

I appreciate the info!
I believe that I can cold stabilize.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[robie]

The type of grapes you are talking about is important. Sometimes it is very difficult and not practical to try to get everything perfect. Some wines are just going to be and need to stay higher acid.

So, what types of grapes and what is the latest pH AND TA? We need to know both pH and TA. And be sure your meter is correctly calibrated. Maybe calibrate it again.

The most important question is - How does it taste?

 

[Flame145]

Thanks for the advice!
Yea, in retrospect, I wish that I would have done a lot of due diligence in the research of wine making before I started.
I actually started after trying a wine that a buddy had made, he just pours the contents of a few pails in a demi John and puts an airlock on it and waits a year or two....I figured...well damn...if it is that easy....LMAO!!! It really surprises me just how many people that I know that have been doing it like that for years.
I never thought making wine was this involved, and I don't mean that in a bad way, I really enjoy it, but I know that I'm way behind on a lot of stuff and I am trying to get things right, while keeping it fun.
Once I realized that I needed testers and stabilizers and such, I jumped right on it and ordered as much as I could...I'm trying to figure out how to justify buying a Vinmetrica ..lol


Thanks! this is exactly what I was looking for!

Should I wait before re-checking, or will the PH raise fairly quick?
Thanks again for your help!

Tom

Wine making can be very simple like you said. The difference is in the quality of wine your making. Its really not that difficult once you have a grasp on some basic principals and how to make some corrections when need, and also just to simply and know just to leave it alone.
You give yourself and the wine a good chance of becoming a great wine, when you start it within reason. Good ph, ta, starting brix etc.. but these numbers also vary alot depending on the grapes you are using. Also not everything is numbers, also go by taste. If the numbers are a little off your target, but you like the taste, then leave it be.
It always amazes me that every year when I bottle my wine ( I let wine stay in barrel for 1 full year, I would like to let sit for 2 years but have to free up barrel for upcoming grape season) how it changes month to month in the bottle.
Get yourself a good ph meter wil be a good start. You can obviously get your ph but also you can calculate your TA by titrating to 8.2 instead of using the cheap kits and looking for color change. ( I could never see and always wonder how accurate that was.)
Good Luck and don't overwhelm yourself, its all actually pretty simple stuff.

Bryan

 

[winemaker_3352]

Wine making can be very simple like you said. The difference is in the quality of wine your making. Its really not that difficult once you have a grasp on some basic principals and how to make some corrections when need, and also just to simply and know just to leave it alone.
You give yourself and the wine a good chance of becoming a great wine, when you start it within reason. Good ph, ta, starting brix etc.. but these numbers also vary alot depending on the grapes you are using. Also not everything is numbers, also go by taste. If the numbers are a little off your target, but you like the taste, then leave it be.
It always amazes me that every year when I bottle my wine ( I let wine stay in barrel for 1 full year, I would like to let sit for 2 years but have to free up barrel for upcoming grape season) how it changes month to month in the bottle.
Get yourself a good ph meter wil be a good start. You can obviously get your ph but also you can calculate your TA by titrating to 8.2 instead of using the cheap kits and looking for color change. ( I could never see and always wonder how accurate that was.)
Good Luck and don't overwhelm yourself, its all actually pretty simple stuff.

Bryan

Totally agree!!!

 

[Pumpkinman]

Robie, here is the info that you asked for:
All from Juice pails, I just tested the PH again after re-calibrating my PH meter:
As far as the taste, they taste tart.

Amarone - PH 2.6 TA 0.67
Lambrusco - PH - 2.8 TA 0.45
Chianti - PH - 3.1 TA - 0.33

Thanks!
Tom

 

[Pumpkinman]

Bryan,
Thanks again for the great advice!
I just received my PH meter yesterday, that's where all of the concern about the low PH came about, I actually used my PH meter to calculate the TA by titrating to 8.2 instead of using the cheap kits and looking for color change. Once I had this info, the PH & TA concerned me, plus the wines that have a low PH really do taste too tart, and although I realize that the wine will change as it ages, I also realize that I should have tested and adjusted prior to fermenting. I'm not stressing too much, I would like to correct things as much as possible before even more time passes.
I'm going to be helping my LHBS with their website and inventorying everything they have, at the same time, the owner has agreed to teach me what he knows about Home brewing, it almost sounds like the perfect scenario!

Tom

 

[Pumpkinman]

Trying to see if I have my math right here.
Using Potassium Bicarbonate:
.67 grams per liter (2.53 g per gallon) lowers acid by .1%
I would like to raise my PH from 2.6 to 3.4-3.6 range
8 x 5 gal = 101.2 grams or 4 oz
This seems high to me, but I have absolutely no experience with this, as per recommendations from bryan, I would only try half of that, or 2 oz.
Does the math look correct?

Tom

 

[grapeman]

It is recommended to not reduce acid by more than .2 to .3 ( 2-3 g/L TA) or it can leave the taste behind. Experience tells me 2 ounces is too much even and rendered the wine undrinkable. Also I believe the .1% reduction of acid is for the TA as in grams per liter, not pH. pH is not linear so the lower you go, it is in multiples of 10 for each point reduced, so a pH of 2.8 is 10 times as strong as a pH of 3.8. TA is a measure of the amount of acid in g/L while pH is how strong that acid is. Think- compare vinegar to sulfuric acid. Your TA is within range for the Amarone in question. I wouldn't reduce it a lot, but some would help it.

My mind is foggy this AM and hopefully Ibglowin can sum it up better for you.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Grapeman,
Thanks, I was under the impression that if I raised the TA .1% the PH would increase by the same .1%, I've read that it is highly recommended against reducing TA more than .3 g/L, so here I sit a bit perplexed.

I cannot understand why the PH is so low, I did not do anything besides put the contents of a 6 gallon pail of Juice into a cleaned and sanitized fermentor, I then added 1 packet of Lalvin 71B-1122 yeast and let the fermenting process begin.

 

[winemaker_3352]

I found this calculator online.

Give it a try - might help with how much you need to add.

According to this - it says to add 2.506 g/l of KHCO3.


http://www.anaesthetist.com/mnm/wine/Findex.htm

You can alter the acid at the bottom - I stuck all zero's in and got 2.937 KHCO3 g/l to add.

It may or may not help - thought I would share...

 

[Pumpkinman]

Jon,
Thanks, that comes out to be 1.94 oz for 5 gallons, if I decided to go that route I would start with an ounce.
I am leaning towards MLF first, from all that I've read, it can raise PH between 1-2%.
Any thoughts?