RJ Spagnols Mystery packet

[v1rotate]

Getting ready to start my first RJS kit, an En Primeur Sicilian Syrah. There is a foil packet included which isn't marked other than some numbers. I know I can just open it to see if it is oak dust, but I won't start the kit until this afternoon and my curiosity leads me to ask my friends here.

Is this the Genuwine dried skins pack? If so, I plan to dump it into the must and I'll use a small strainer bag over a funnel to rack to carboy later.

Also, there are 2 oak staves included. They look like dark toast. Anyone know what type of oak this is? I think I'll add them to the carboy when I rack from the primary bucket and keep them in for at least some of the aging. Tips?

TIA!

 

[Wade E]

To know what kind of oak it is we would at least need to know what exact kit this is. To kow what packet this is we would need to know what you have already as there are lots of packets with these kits. There should be a fining gent packet or packets as sometimes they are separated and sometimes they are attached. It is a two part fining agent and the packets are usually clear and one is marked Chitosan and the other Kiesol. There should also be a packet of sulfite and a packet of sorbate. Then and only with these EP kits are a packet of meta-tartaric acid which is supposed to postpone any wine diamonds from falling out for about 1 year which didnt work much for me so I highly recommend cold stabilizing this wine if wine diamonds in your bottle will put you off. There will also be a package of bentonite and possibly an oak infusion bag.

 

[Dean]

it's oak dust. RJS has very crappy oak packaging, with little to no instructions or descriptions on them. It probably says something like TST40, which would mean 40 grams of toasted oak.

 

[Dean]

oh, the 2 oak staves are heavy toast hungarian oak.

 

[v1rotate]

it's oak dust. RJS has very crappy oak packaging, with little to no instructions or descriptions on them. It probably says something like TST40, which would mean 40 grams of toasted oak.

Thanks, Dean. I"ll toss it into the primary bucket. If the staves are heavy toast Hungarian I might need to be careful about overoaking, yes?

 

[Dean]

well, technically, they want you to put all the oak, and the staves in primary too, so it only actually has contact for up to 14 days depending on which instructions you go by.

Personally, I'd use 1 stave in primary, and 1 stave for 3 months in secondary. After that, fine the wine, wait 3 more months, bottle it, and wait another 12. The oak will be nicely integrated.

 

[Wade E]

I always use the staves in bulk aging.

 

[v1rotate]

I always use the staves in bulk aging.

Sounds like a plan, Wade. Gives me an excuse to sample now and then for oakiness.

 

[robie]

I am a little late to respond, but unless you don't really like oak, there is not much danger in over oaking one of these kits, if you use only the oak provided in the kit. Many of us end up having to add extra oak above and beyond what is included in the kit. I know I add more and I don't believe I like an over abundance of oak in my wine.

I am sure there are exceptions, but you likely have no worries over oaking.

 

[v1rotate]

I am a little late to respond, but unless you don't really like oak, there is not much danger in over oaking one of these kits, if you use only the oak provided in the kit. Many of us end up having to add extra oak above and beyond what is included in the kit. I know I add more and I don't believe I like an over abundance of oak in my wine.

I am sure there are exceptions, but you likely have no worries over oaking.

We shall see, Richard. Have you seen the staves that come with (I am guessing here) the EP kits? They are huge. I, too, have been adding oak to most of my reds in the last year but I suspect this kit won't need any extra.

 

[Wade E]

I havent found a red wine kit yet that I havent added at least a little more oak to but I also like the oak monster!

 

[v1rotate]

I always use the staves in bulk aging.

That brings up a question. How do you get the stave out of the carboy when you are done bulk aging? I started to put the staves in the secondary carboy but the fit was too tight for them to drop in, hence I thought there would be a huge problem getting them out of the carboy 3 months from now. Do they shrink over time? Do you use fishing line and a hole drilled in the stave?

 

[ibglowin]

I have heard several people use the fishing wire technique. Have not heard of any problems retrieving them out of the carboy.

 

[Wade E]

I have not used staves as of yet, do they not really fit through the hole in a carboy well?

 

[v1rotate]

I could get the stave to go into the carboy, but I would have had to push on it, leading me to believe it would be next to impossible to get out. Maybe if I shaved a bit of oak off the edges...

I'd really like to hear from someone with first hand experience with staves, anyone?

 

[Bartman]

Haven't used the staves, since George only carries the spirals, which I have used several times. Getting them out of the carboy is sometimes a small challenge since they have to be vertical to fit through the hole.

If the staves are problematic, I recommend switching to the oak spirals. Not terribly helpful regarding staves, huh?

 

[v1rotate]

If the staves are problematic, I recommend switching to the oak spirals. Not terribly helpful regarding staves, huh?

Yeah, I have a good variety of beans which I will use if I don't figure out a good way to get the staves out. I still might shave the edges down to sort of round them. That might work and I wouldn't be losing that much oak.

 

[v1rotate]

I always use the staves in bulk aging.

So how do you get the staves out of the carboy when you are done with them, Wade?

 

[Waldo]

I always use the staves in bulk aging.

So how do you get the staves out of the carboy when you are done with them, Wade?

I think wade meant the spirals v1 but I believe if you used some good strong 12-20lb monafilament fihing line attached to the staves in a timberhitch rig you would not have any problem getting them out of the carboy

 

[Wade E]

Sorry, that should have been spiral as Ive never even used a stave yet but knowing that they have little surface area unlike dust or chips they would certainly have to be carried over from primary to carboy. I have made my own oak sticks before though and they did swell a little making them hard to get out so if you do shave them, shave them a little extra for clearance later. Just so you know, they didnt swell much but if you did make it so just to barely fit in you might have a little trouble getting it back out. Again, sorry for the misprint as I try to answer lots of questions and some times my mind just reads something as another.