Mlf

[Pumpkinman]

Snafflekid, I've used Viniflora CH16 with success, it's a decent MLB. I agree with the professional winemakers, Malolactic bacteria has become implanted in their winery, all subsequent wine made in that winery will undergo MLF.
Like I said before, so many people make this so hard on themselves, it is a simple straight forward process.

 

[Gwand]

The Viniflora CH16 I bought was about $20 so it will add $1 to the bottle of Cab Sauv I am making.



I hesitated to do MLF because my pH is 4.0 but I had two professional winemakers tell me that regardless, MLF is going to happen to their reds so I should do it. The bacteria is everywhere on their equipment and they agreed that pH 4.0 is not ideal but the flavor will be better.

Why don't you lower the PH and then start MLF?

 

[Gwand]

Snafflekid, I've used Viniflora CH16 with success, it's a decent MLB. I agree with the professional winemakers, Malolactic bacteria has become implanted in their winery, all subsequent wine made in that winery will undergo MLF.
Like I said before, so many people make this so hard on themselves, it is a simple straight forward process.

Pumpkinman. It seems confusing because some people have posted that certain MLF cultures are finicky or unreliable. So I was sweating it because I cannot tell if MLF started yet. I am keeping my S02 low which is why I thought I should get the MLF completed ASAP so I could increase the sulfite level and protect the wine from possible contamination. Newbie gwand

 

[Pumpkinman]

Gwand, there are a few unreliable MLB, maybe because they've sat around at the LHBS too long, or for whatever reason. I stick with Lalvin 31 or MBR 41, tried and true.
As far as the sulfite level, if after a month or 2 at the most you don't test using a Chromatography test kit, you are asking for trouble, but to be honest, If I'm making wine from grapes or Juice buckets, I always test my levels and hit the grapes or juice with meta to kill any wild yeasts, my so2 levels are usually low at the end of MLF, but low isn't depleted. Once MLF is complete, I add meta.

 

[Snafflebit]

Why don't you lower the PH and then start MLF?

I did add tartaric, but I did not want to adjust the juice all the way to pH 3.4 or so where MLF is recommended. I had no idea what amount of malic was in the juice. This is a fun project for now. pH 3.7 is what I hit.

 

[Gwand]

Two more MLF questions. 1. Can I add ML bacteria nutrients 10 days after pitching the bacteria?
2. Can I add oak during MLF. Thanks.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Oak, No problem, Nutrients, half dose, you don't want to leave any nutrients hanging around after MLF is complete for the spoilage organisms to feed on.

 

[geek]

I have also added oak sticks to previous mlf; no problem here either.
I have a merlot going on now and added 1 stick as well.

 

[ShawnDTurner]

1. Depends on who you ask whether nutrients are needed or not.

2. Yes...malo traditionally takes place spontaneously in oak barrels and intentionally these days

 

[Gwand]

Thanks all.

 

[jethro]

Check out this article that I put together about MLF

Pumpkinman, where is that article you put together? I'd like to read it.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Right below the WMT logo you will see a list of tabs, click on the articles.

 

[jethro]

Thank you, Tom. From reading your article, I understand that in order to effectively use MLF, I would need to get
simple PH, TA and SO2 tests and Chromatography tests?
How much money does this stuff cost? One-time and recurring costs ? I have some other questions regarding MLF. May I ask them here or should I start a new thread?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Jethro, to get within the recommended tolerances for MLF, yes..but...even before I really started to test everything, I found that as long as I used a MLB such as Lalvin 31 or MBR 41, MLF would start and complete successfully.
There are plenty of MLB that are cheaper, but they also tend to have reliability issues.
I would visit Presque Isle wine cellars, these folks have everything, plus, I've seen several wineries that buy their supplies from them. http://www.piwine.com/index.html
Ask any question that you have, no worries.

 

[jethro]

From your posts, Tom, I deduce that MLF occurs during the secondary (anerobic) part of winemaking.

I know MLF stands for malolactic fermentation or malolactic conversion because I read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malolactic_fermentation

I learned MLF reduces the sourness or tartness of red wines (by converting malic acid into lactic acid).

I also learned MLF employs hand-picked bacteria species of the Oenococcus or Lactobacillus genera.

Now I have a couple questions:

(1) So it sounds like something that makes dry red wine taste better. This must be the factor that makes homemade wines taste amateurish compared to the same varietal of store-bought wine, eh?

(2) But alcholic beverages kill bacteria, and eventually, when the concentration of alcohol becomes sufficiently intense, yeast. So that means these MLF bacteria must be introduced during primary fermentation, correct? Or are they some kind of alcohol-resistant creatures?

(3) Does MLF occur naturally in secondary (anerobic, carbon dioxide-rich) fermentation without adding anything at all?

(4) Anybody ever try dissolving erithyritol (a sugar alcohol typically used as an artificial sweetener) in the finished wine to see how it tastes compared to putting the same wine through MLF?

 

[Pumpkinman]

Jethro,
I'll try to address your questions:
(1) So it sounds like something that makes dry red wine taste better. This must be the factor that makes homemade wines taste amateurish compared to the same varietal of store-bought wine, eh?
There are so many factors that could make up the reason that you feel commercial wine taste better than home made wines, MLF is one, but aging, using quality grapes, oak barrels and years of knowledge are just as important

(2) But alcholic beverages kill bacteria, and eventually, when the concentration of alcohol becomes sufficiently intense, yeast. So that means these MLF bacteria must be introduced during primary fermentation, correct? Or are they some kind of alcohol-resistant creatures?
If your wine has an alcohol content high enough to kill MLB, you are probably making a fortified wine, or a brandy...lol You can co-ferment and add MLB to the primary during alcoholic fermentation, some say it's better, some say they like to carry out MLF independently, but it does not HAVE to be introduced in the primary

(3) Does MLF occur naturally in secondary (anerobic, carbon dioxide-rich) fermentation without adding anything at all?
The chances of it occurring in the bottle are very high and this could cause bottles to burst, make your wine sparkling, but even worse, If a spontaneous, but undesirable, strain of Malolactic bacteria becomes implanted in the winery, then all subsequent wine made in that winery, commercial or home winery, may be in danger of exhibiting the negative characteristics associated with that particular strain of bacteria. It is crucial that we add known, reliable strains of the bacteria, and not rely on the strains that have become implanted in our wineries.

(4) Anybody ever try dissolving erithyritol (a sugar alcohol typically used as an artificial sweetener) in the finished wine to see how it tastes compared to putting the same wine through MLF?
I don't have any idea about this, but it sounds like you would be masking any harsh acids instead of having them converted and making the wine smoother, or rounder.

 

[ldmack3]

I've go several 1/2 gal, 1500s and 750s leftover that need MLF.
Do you just draw some from the carboy and swap out juice from the smaller jugs?

 

[Pumpkinman]

You can take some of the wine that is currently going through an active MLF and add it to the smaller containers, this should work well.

 

[ldmack3]

You can take some of the wine that is currently going through an active MLF and add it to the smaller containers, this should work well.

Since they are full I'll swap between.

Thanks.