Mlf 101

[Steamer]

This may be a bit lengthy but I'm trying to sort through a multitude of sources and comments on this topic. I want to attempt to do an MLF on a Chardonney to achieve the buttery taste that we really enjoy. I'm going to list what I "think" I know and what I don't know with the hope that others can set me straight. First of all, THANKS to any and all who take the time to read this and to comment! I've been making wine for 5 years, kits, buckets, and also one time with fresh grapes.
I have a bucket of Bello Chilean Chardonney currently in primary. Satisfactory choice?
Will ferment to dry. I know not to add sulfite but is it OK to add sorbate?
Must I test for pH and/or sulfite at any time?
From what I've read, I should leave it on the lees to provide nutrient for the bacteria.
After fermentation is complete, inoculate with bacteria culture. Which is best to achieve desired results? How do I add? Just dump in, and stir?
Top off carboy? If so, do I use a similar wine or water. Or find a smaller carboy ?
To know when MLF is complete I've read one needs to use a chromatography test kit. But for my purposes can I just "wing" it and wait longer than MLF typically takes? Can I just look for the tiny bubbles?
Add sulfite before bottling? 1/4 tsp?
Anything else I've missed? Or is this more complicated than I realize?
Again, Thank you! I've enjoyed browsing this forum and was told this would be the best place to get advice.

 

[robie]

This may be a bit lengthy but I'm trying to sort through a multitude of sources and comments on this topic. I want to attempt to do an MLF on a Chardonney to achieve the buttery taste that we really enjoy. I'm going to list what I "think" I know and what I don't know with the hope that others can set me straight. First of all, THANKS to any and all who take the time to read this and to comment! I've been making wine for 5 years, kits, buckets, and also one time with fresh grapes.
I have a bucket of Bello Chilean Chardonney currently in primary. Satisfactory choice?
Will ferment to dry. I know not to add sulfite but is it OK to add sorbate?
Never ever add sorbate to a wine that is going to go through MLF. Sorbate and MLF create a geranium taste that ruins the wine.
You really don't ever need to add sorbate to a wine that is going to remain dry, MLF or not.

Must I test for pH and/or sulfite at any time?
You really need to learn to test with accurate means.

From what I've read, I should leave it on the lees to provide nutrient for the bacteria.
Only on the lite lees. Or you can do what is even better and ad a special nutrient just for MLF.

After fermentation is complete, inoculate with bacteria culture. Which is best to achieve desired results?
Use one that creates dietctyl, which along with oak gives that buttery flavor.
Read the specs for each ML BActeria (MLB)

How do I add? Just dump in, and stir?
Follow the directions that come with the MLB.
It does need to be stirred in.

Top off carboy? If so, do I use a similar wine or water. Or find a smaller carboy ?
Yes, top off the carboy with a similar or same wine variety. Unless your carboy level is very low, there is not enough sulfites in the a bottle of commercial wine to affect the MLF.

To know when MLF is complete I've read one needs to use a chromatography test kit. But for my purposes can I just "wing" it and wait longer than MLF typically takes? Can I just look for the tiny bubbles?
Never wing it. Buy a chromatography kit or consider not doing an MLF.

Add sulfite before bottling? 1/4 tsp?
Measure the free SO2 and add accordingly. Adjust as soon as MLF is complete.

Anything else I've missed? Or is this more complicated than I realize?
Not complicated, but each time you do it, you do get better at it.

Again, Thank you! I've enjoyed browsing this forum and was told this would be the best place to get advice.

See my comments in red

 

[jswordy]

1 vote for making this a sticky or article.

 

[mjrisenhoover]

If you can keep the temperature up it will progress faster, around 70 degrees would be good.

 

[Steamer]

Thanks

See my comments in red

Thanks so much for your quick response. I think I understand what to do. Since I only have one bucket of juice, I was hoping not spend a whole lot initially. That's why I asked about winging it for the end-point of MLF rather than buying a test kit. All I see are those in the $70 - $80 range and up. If there isn't a more affordable substitute I guess I'll have to buy the kit and do several batches. One sheet of paper is good for several batches and I'll only have one. Seems like it's a test kit that bigger wine makers would use. And I'm not talking about us guys who could loose a few pounds

 

[Steamer]

1 vote for making this a sticky or article.

I'm new. What's a "sticky". Sounds like it's something good.

 

[Turock]

Before you begin your MLF, you might want to go look at some good white paper written about how to do it. E C Kraus has a good one on their site. You can also do a Google search for MLF and you'll find many results. Before we attempted our first MLF, we read several of these papers, printed them out, and followed the instructions EXACTLY. Don't "wing it." Get the chromotography kit and do it right.

 

[Bacci]

2 pails of frozen red grapes yields about 7+ gals. What can you do with a split batch to MLF. 6 gallon + 1 gal or even less. How much bacteria and nutrient to put in the one gallon/less batch? This would evenually be used as a topping wine for a 6 gal barrel. Also, should you rack a couple of days after pressing to clear gross lees before pitching MLF?

 

[Steamer]

Before you begin your MLF, you might want to go look at some good white paper written about how to do it. E C Kraus has a good one on their site. You can also do a Google search for MLF and you'll find many results. Before we attempted our first MLF, we read several of these papers, printed them out, and followed the instructions EXACTLY. Don't "wing it." Get the chromotography kit and do it right.

I've just read E C Kraus paper per your suggestion. Good stuff. I will definitely not "wing it". With your help and others, I hope to have my ducks in a row when I start. Thanks!

 

[Turock]

I'm pleased that you're going to do this in a studious manner. You'll learn a lot by doing this the right way. You learn nothing by doing this in a sloppy manner.

 

[Boatboy24]

1 vote for making this a sticky or article.

+1

I'll be embarking on my first MLF soon and this stuff is helpful.

 

[Dugger]

Just out of curiosity would the results from doing MLF on the Chardonnay be much different than doing batonnage on it?

 

[robie]

Just out of curiosity would the results from doing MLF on the Chardonnay be much different than doing batonnage on it?

Very different!

However, either can help cut the bite of a Chardonnay. Each of these two methods results in a slightly different flavor profile.

Surlie/batonnage does smooth out the wine some and gives it a yeasty/biscuity taste, but it doesn't actually reduce malic acid.

MLF reduces the amount of malic acid and, depending on the MLB utilized, can add that buttery flavor.

Not everyone likes the yeasty flavor of surlie/batonnage but lots do like the buttery flavor of MLF and Chardonnay.

 

[Dugger]

Thanks, Robie - good information.

 

[Steamer]

+1

I'll be embarking on my first MLF soon and this stuff is helpful.

I have learned a lot! I'm proceeding cautiously but I'm confident the end result will be worth it. I do appreciate the guidance that has been provided here. Good luck! My Chard is still in primary. So I still have a little time to get my bacteria.

 

[Steamer]

MAL Bacteria

See my comments in red

Robie,
You recommended that I get a bacteria culture that produces diacetyl. My winemaker supplier carries White Labs WLP 675. The spec states that it produces a "moderate" level of diacetyl. Will this product work for me? I also read that diacetyl production can be aided by racking the wine off the lees. This seems to imply that I might need some type of nutrient to replace the lost nutrients in the lees. Cab you clarify? Thanks again!
I can taste it aleady

 

[Wild Duk]

I have never heard anything good about White Labs WLP 675, except the price... Probably look for something else if I were you...

 

[Steamer]

I have never heard anything good about White Labs WLP 675, except the price... Probably look for something else if I were you...

Wow! Thanks for the "heads up". I'll check to see if my local store has something else other than WLP 675. If not, I'll need a name, and source, for a good bacteria. I'll probably have to order on-line and have it mailed. Got any ideas?

 

[Steamer]

I have never heard anything good about White Labs WLP 675, except the price... Probably look for something else if I were you...

Also available locally is WYEAST #4007, blend of 2 strains: ER1A and EY2D. Has anyone had any experience?

 

[Turock]

Bacchus is a good MLB that finishes fast. We're using a different culture--W something, can't recall right now-- that is being painfully SLOW in completing the MLF. Some MLB's are better at more diacetyl production than others. But the other thing I've read is that to preserve the buttery flavor, you have to end the MLF as soon as you see no malic on the chromotography test. This keeps the MLB from beginning to metabolize the lactic acid.

You asked about not doing the MLF on the Chard. I really like it done in fruit style--that is to say without the MLF. But I like the MLF version too, especially if it's nice and buttery. It's really your call.