Never made grape wine before, though I have made berry wine and cider. This'll be my first. I've gathered a bunch of grapes that my neighbor let me pick from their vine, about a half and half mix of white and red grapes, about 20lb in total I think. As I figured out in an earlier thread I think I'll try making a rose of some sort since the skins aren't so great. Should I mix the two grapes together? Or would I get more value in experience (and flavor) in brewing them separately? Does it even matter for brewing country wine with (probably) concords?
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Ohio Bob
Senior Member
Don’t overthink it, just do it. It will be a good experience and you will learn what you would do next time. Keeping the two varieties separate is obviously twice the work/resources. But you get more control over the final product.
Flufnagel
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20 lb of grapes is enough to produce roughly 6 standard bottles (and change) of wine, so I would not complicate this by separating the varieties. I would make a rosé or "blush" wine and just let nature take its course.
Crush all the grapes together, let them sit on the skins for a few hours, then press, sulfite, and allow the solids to settle overnight. Rack into a clean carboy with enough headspace to allow fermentation, and pitch some proper wine yeast. Don't forget to measure brix/gravity first.
Proceed using the guidelines for making white wine, which are easy to find all over the internet. Make sure you have appropriate containers to allow for topped up wine after primary has completed.
Crush all the grapes together, let them sit on the skins for a few hours, then press, sulfite, and allow the solids to settle overnight. Rack into a clean carboy with enough headspace to allow fermentation, and pitch some proper wine yeast. Don't forget to measure brix/gravity first.
Proceed using the guidelines for making white wine, which are easy to find all over the internet. Make sure you have appropriate containers to allow for topped up wine after primary has completed.
I agree with the above -- trying to ferment a total of 20 lbs of grapes in 2 batches will be a PITA. Be open minded about the result and have fun doing it.
In my sig is the link to the MoreWine! manuals page. Skim the red and white grape manuals to get an idea of how to proceed. Don't try to read them intently yet, as you'll be overwhelmed by details.
I'd ferment both on the skins, don't try to press the white separately. Again, too much of a PITA.
Post pictures of the grapes.
In my sig is the link to the MoreWine! manuals page. Skim the red and white grape manuals to get an idea of how to proceed. Don't try to read them intently yet, as you'll be overwhelmed by details.
I'd ferment both on the skins, don't try to press the white separately. Again, too much of a PITA.
Post pictures of the grapes.
I already did post pictures of the grapes in another thread, and I wanted ferment both of them without the skins because they all have white mildew on them.
Ok, the must is currently fermenting, I kinda did my own thing, partly because I don't have a lot of the equipment, partly because I have weird tastes, and mostly because I have no idea what I'm doing. I'll just post exactly what I did in the form of a recipe.
10lb white grapes, 10lb red grapes. Frozen, destemmed by hand, crushed with a potato masher, macerated for 36 hours in pectic enzyme and SO2, crushed some more, and then strained from the skins, which were then further hand-crushed to extract the most of the juices. Added a small amount of store-bought frozen strawberries I had on hand. Gravity reading was 1.060. In a separate pot, added 5 lb white sugar to 1.7 liters of boiling water, then added to must, brought gravity to 1.130, must is two gallons total. Added Lalvin 71B yeast, bentonite, and yeast nutrient.
I know I macerated for too long for a "rosé" but I was very busy that night and had to delay, but it still looks kinda pink anyway, and smells really good. The initial gravity was less than I had hoped. I figured since I'm adding sugar anyway, may as well add a bunch and try to make something really sweet, catering to my exact personal tastes, since I really like super sweet wines. My hopes and hypothesis is that the somewhat-delicate(?) 71B will die when the ABV reaches ~15% which will leave me with plenty of residual sugars, and a final gravity of around 1.020, according to calculators. No idea if it will go crazy and leave me with 20% abv, I hope not.
In choosing a yeast I read that 71B makes rosés taste like "a fruit salad" and based on the smell that is currently permeating my apartment, that definitely seems to be the case. I am optimistic on how this will turn out.
10lb white grapes, 10lb red grapes. Frozen, destemmed by hand, crushed with a potato masher, macerated for 36 hours in pectic enzyme and SO2, crushed some more, and then strained from the skins, which were then further hand-crushed to extract the most of the juices. Added a small amount of store-bought frozen strawberries I had on hand. Gravity reading was 1.060. In a separate pot, added 5 lb white sugar to 1.7 liters of boiling water, then added to must, brought gravity to 1.130, must is two gallons total. Added Lalvin 71B yeast, bentonite, and yeast nutrient.
I know I macerated for too long for a "rosé" but I was very busy that night and had to delay, but it still looks kinda pink anyway, and smells really good. The initial gravity was less than I had hoped. I figured since I'm adding sugar anyway, may as well add a bunch and try to make something really sweet, catering to my exact personal tastes, since I really like super sweet wines. My hopes and hypothesis is that the somewhat-delicate(?) 71B will die when the ABV reaches ~15% which will leave me with plenty of residual sugars, and a final gravity of around 1.020, according to calculators. No idea if it will go crazy and leave me with 20% abv, I hope not.
In choosing a yeast I read that 71B makes rosés taste like "a fruit salad" and based on the smell that is currently permeating my apartment, that definitely seems to be the case. I am optimistic on how this will turn out.
Ohio Bob
Senior Member
Your approach sounds good in theory, but yeast may have a hard time fermenting above SG of 1.09-ish. That will leave your wine with residual sugar and not protected from microbial attack. Good in theory not in practice. Better choice is to ferment to dry then back sweeten, also adding Kmeta and sorbate, to fully protect the wine.
But you have not chosen this path. I can’t tell you what to do next other than keep a very close eye on the SG and be prepared to Kmeta and Sorbate to salvage your wine.
Sweet wines are not my thing, but from a winemakers perspective it would be better to ferment dry and then backsweeten. Numerous examples from the WMT fam suggest back sweetening brings out fruit flavors, which I suspect is what you’re really after.
But you have not chosen this path. I can’t tell you what to do next other than keep a very close eye on the SG and be prepared to Kmeta and Sorbate to salvage your wine.
Sweet wines are not my thing, but from a winemakers perspective it would be better to ferment dry and then backsweeten. Numerous examples from the WMT fam suggest back sweetening brings out fruit flavors, which I suspect is what you’re really after.
I'm confused as to why this would leave the wine vulnerable to microbes as opposed to back-sweetening? I've read that sweet wines are more finicky with aging in general, i thought that was just because sugars make it easier for microbes to exist in it anyway. Also it seems to be fermenting quite well anyway.
What would adding Kmeta and Sorbate do for this? I thought one adds that to be sure it doesn't re-ferment, but if it's over the alcohol tolerance there's no chance of that right?
Well, it's not too late. I for one really want to try this for the sake of my own personal science and experimentation, but if I can be convinced that it will most probably end up being unstable and shit I can add some more water at this point to bring the gravity down, I don't care too much about exact measurements in the first place, getting an accurate ABV is just a bonus to me.
Ohio Bob
Senior Member
The yeast will die in ABV of say 15% and you have potentially more than that. So there will eventually be dead yeast and residual sugars which microbes will feast on.
The combination of Kmeta and sorbate will kill the yeast and any microbes, this should be done at bottling, or if desired a few weeks before bottling.
The combination of Kmeta and sorbate will kill the yeast and any microbes, this should be done at bottling, or if desired a few weeks before bottling.
I'd like to make an update on this post. It'd been a while. The final gravity was 1.030, (Original was 1.132), so about 15% as planned.
The color is very pleasant, sort of a strawberry red. Very full body, very very sweet, has more sugar per volume than a can of coke. A bit tangy too. Honestly more like a sangria than a wine. But I like it. I have some chilled as desert every now and then. Overall I'm happy with both the final product and the experience gleaned from the experiment.
The color is very pleasant, sort of a strawberry red. Very full body, very very sweet, has more sugar per volume than a can of coke. A bit tangy too. Honestly more like a sangria than a wine. But I like it. I have some chilled as desert every now and then. Overall I'm happy with both the final product and the experience gleaned from the experiment.
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