Just curious; why not top up?

[Johnd]

Just finished topping up the carboy. Oh, my.... What an experience. I bought a bottle of Clos du Bois Cab Sauv on the way home tonight to top up with. Good thought. It took all of it and a whole 750 of a cab franc I had around and even a half of a sweet red we still had to fill to the top. Not much space for oxygen now - maybe an inch, inch and a half below the stopper.

Sounds like you're good, now it's time to be patient and let gravity do its thing.

 

[PostToastee]

But I didn't have any flavoring packets in my kit.

The Cab you're doing wouldn't have any flavoring packs. You get the bentonite and oak powder for the primary fermenter. Then you're adding the metabisulphite, sorbate and chitosan in the stabilizing and clearing step.

No flavors to this type of kit, unless you count the oak powder.

 

[Floandgary]

Interestingly enough, my Winexpert Cab Sauv instructions are pretty clear about not topping up the carboy with water or wine. (See pic below. I dont' think I have an F-pack kit).

Just curious; why do they not recommend topping up? Doesn't that extra space (air) run the risk of CO2?

FROM WINEMAKERS ACADAMY -- TOPPING UP http://winemakersacademy.com/


Ideally when you make your wine you would have some in reserve to top up with. Wineries will often have a barrel or two to be used just for topping up. They take wine from these barrels to make sure their other barrels are kept full.
Topping up all the way is the key to reducing oxygen exposure.
If you don’t have any wine set aside for this purpose the next best thing to top up with is another finished wine. Pick out a similar wine from the store and use that. It’s best to match flavor and sweetness as best you can but in the end it isn’t going to have a huge impact on your wine’s flavor because you’re not adding all that much.

Lastly there’s water. This used to be standard practice when making wine from kits. Manufacturers designed their kits to be topped up with water so that the final product would be at the appropriate concentration. However, Winexpert has recently changed their kit instructions and omitted the part about topping up with water.
Professional winemakers are actually limited on how much or even if they can add water to their wines legally. Generally speaking topping up with water just isn’t a good idea. Find a compatible wine and use that instead. You’ll have a better bottle of wine in the end if you do.

 

[ibglowin]

WineExpert also asumes you will be bottling this ASAP (6 weeks) so not really enough time to do major damage to a wine with limited headspace.

 

[Fedoradude]

Thanks for all the good input re topping up, all.

The local winemaking/beer brewing supply store recommended I let it bulk age/fine further in the carboy for another week. So I'm planning on bottling Sunday.

I think it's almost ready. There's a very pronounced sediment layer in the bottom. (See picture) What do you think?

 

[David219]

I would not bottle from that carboy. I would rack it again and let it further settle for a while. You're likely to get a lot of that sediment in your bottles if you bottle from there.

 

[David219]

WE kit instructions usually recommend a racking from the primary fermentation vessel at SH 1.010. Degassing, stabilizing, and clearing are accomplished in the secondary carboy, without racking. Usually they recommend racking off the sediment after 8 days (I now ALWAYS wait longer, but that's what the instructions say).
I don't know if I've ever had that much sediment after that second racking and waiting the prescribed 14 days in the instructions. Is that photo of the carboy after the second racking? It almost looks like the way the secondary carboy looks after the stabilizing and clearing step...

 

[Fedoradude]

I don't know if I've ever had that much sediment after that second racking and waiting the prescribed 14 days in the instructions. Is that photo of the carboy after the second racking? It almost looks like the way the secondary carboy looks after the stabilizing and clearing step...

Yep.It's the stabilizing and fining step.

 

[David219]

I would rack it again and wait a while. You'll likely get some of that sediment in your bottles if you bottle from there.

 

[Fedoradude]

I would not bottle from that carboy. I would rack it again and let it further settle for a while. You're likely to get a lot of that sediment in your bottles if you bottle from there.

Well, I could do that, I guess. I could rack it back into the primary fermenter bucket, I suppose. Then wash the gunk outta the carboy, resterilize and rack it back into the carboy for awhile. How long you suppose I should let it stay back in there after racking?

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Well, I could do that, I guess. I could rack it back into the primary fermenter bucket, I suppose. Then wash the gunk outta the carboy, resterilize and rack it back into the carboy for awhile. How long you suppose I should let it stay back in there after racking?

Until you do not have any more sediment - otherwise it will end up in your bottles rather than your carboy

 

[David219]

+1 to what Steve just said. Getting it off that sediment will lead to clearer wine in the bottle. I don't know your exact timeline, but waiting longer will also help the wine naturally de-gas. Bottling when the instructions say you can has ALWAYS led to gassy wine in the bottle, for me. No matter how much and at what temperature I beat the dickens out of it when I de-gassed. Time in a topped up carboy is your friend. Make sure to add the additional 1/4 tsp of KMeta the instructions advise to add at the racking and clarification stage (usually printed in color in the 4th step of the instructions). Good luck!

 

[Fedoradude]

Hmmm. Have their been some posts deleted? Could've sworn there was one or two pointing out that many rookies like me mistakenly don't stir back in the sediment at the first racking (which I didn't).

So, my question is; since I didn't do that - and I've got a well-defined 2nd layer of sediment on the bottom of the carboy after the 2nd racking, is the wine batch ruined or is it still turning into an alcohol product? If figured I'd let it sit another week or so in the carboy and either:
*stir it like hell and let it sit some more, or
* go ahead and rack it one more time then bottle it from that racked batch.


What ya'll think?

 

[David219]

Well, I could do that, I guess. I could rack it back into the primary fermenter bucket, I suppose. Then wash the gunk outta the carboy, resterilize and rack it back into the carboy for awhile. How long you suppose I should let it stay back in there after racking?

I don't believe your wine is ruined. From your previous posts, I assume you don't (yet!) have a second 6 gallon carboy. I would do what you posted in the above referenced quote.
The minimum I would let it sit would be for 14 days...that is generally the length of time WE kits recommend be allowed for final clarification (read the section number 4 in your instructions). There is also a note (usually typed in brown rather than black ink) about an additional addition of 1/4 tsp of KMeta if you plan on aging the wine greater than 6 months.
If you have done this already and you still have thick sediment, I would rack it again. Does this help?

 

[Tnuscan]

Hmmm. Have their been some posts deleted? Could've sworn there was one or two pointing out that many rookies like me mistakenly don't stir back in the sediment at the first racking (which I didn't).

So, my question is; since I didn't do that - and I've got a well-defined 2nd layer of sediment on the bottom of the carboy after the 2nd racking, is the wine batch ruined or is it still turning into an alcohol product? If figured I'd let it sit another week or so in the carboy and either:
*stir it like hell and let it sit some more, or
* go ahead and rack it one more time then bottle it from that racked batch.


What ya'll think?

I( Tnuscan)= Tennessean deleted my post on Wine Expert cab. sav. kit. I was going by what they say in their instructions. This is the only wine kit I can get locally. I am in no way a professional wine maker, I was trying to help out and thought I might be confusing someone, So I deleted my post. I realized I'm not one to give advice. I will back out and let those that are able to lead do so I try and follow instructions and meant no harm. If I've done you harm forgive me me. I wish you and everyone on this forum the best in wines!!

 

[Fedoradude]

I don't believe your wine is ruined. From your previous posts, I assume you don't (yet!) have a second 6 gallon carboy. I would do what you posted in the above referenced quote.
The minimum I would let it sit would be for 14 days...that is generally the length of time WE kits recommend be allowed for final clarification (read the section number 4 in your instructions). There is also a note (usually typed in brown rather than black ink) about an additional addition of 1/4 tsp of KMeta if you plan on aging the wine greater than 6 months.
If you have done this already and you still have thick sediment, I would rack it again. Does this help?

Yes, it does. Thanks. Believe I'll thief some out and try to stir like crazy and mix the recent sediment layer again. Let sit for 14 days, rack and bottle.

 

[David219]

I wouldn't stir it back up into suspension again. Just rack it off the gross lees, trying to leave as much behind as you can, and let it sit again.
I don't see any benefit to stirring again...assuming you have already stirred it a couple times during the degassing stage. Further stirring will just expose the wine to more oxygen at this point, which is not good.

 

[Fedoradude]

I wouldn't stir it back up into suspension again. Just rack it off the gross lees, trying to leave as much behind as you can, and let it sit again.
I don't see any benefit to stirring again...assuming you have already stirred it a couple times during the degassing stage. Further stirring will just expose the wine to more oxygen at this point, which is not good.

OK. I can do that. Just rack and let sit. Would you recommend putting in some of that shellfish based fining stuff when it goes back in or just put it in the carboy and let it sit?

 

[David219]

I would just let it sit. I add the extra KMeta advised for longer term aging, top up the carboy with a similar style wine, and let it rest for at least a couple months.
It will clear and naturally de-gas during this time. If some sediment drops out, I would gently rack it off that again, let it sit for a few days, a week, then bottle.

 

[Fedoradude]

I( Tnuscan)= Tennessean deleted my post on Wine Expert cab. sav. kit.

not sure what you're referring to but you haven't done me any harm. These forums are for sharing experiences, opinions and ideas. And i'm such a newbie I need all the help I can garner.

Speaking of, how do you delete your posts? I looked round for a delete option once and couldn't find any. The board moderator said we couldn't because they want other newbies to come in later and be able to gain from our past questions, etc.