WineXpert is there a fix for "bubble gum"

[MonkeyK]

I am on my fourth kit. WE Coastal White that I got with a groupon (really good deal, but I wish they would have let me pay extra to trade up from a BB to a glass carboy or that I could have upgraded the wine kit).

While this is my fourth kit, it is the first one on which I followed the instructions to a "T". Unfortunately I like it least by quite a bit.

Problems
1) it's fizzy. Unfortunately I bottled it fizzy and realized the extent later. I really should have done more tasting before bottling, but I was doing everything that I could not to fiddle. After finding the fiz, poured all of the bottles back into the carboy, stirred for 3 minutes with my drill attachedstir stick, vacuum degassed with my FoodSaver, and added 2g KMeta
2)There is a metalic taste. My guess is that this will go away with time.
3)There is a fake sweet taste reminicent of bubble gum. This is what bugs me most --in fact, its intollerable.

So I have a nearly full carboy of stuff that I don't think that I would want to drink unless I can at least fix the fake sweet "bubble gum" taste. Is there something that I can do about it? Or should I just call the kit a loss?

 

[grapeman]

The bubble gum taste is what is commonly known as KT or "Kit Taste". It is generally seen with lower end really concentrated kits. Some say it is from the concentration methods of the juice while others say that it is the sorbate. I don't think it is sorbate because almost all kits include that and only some kits seem to be the ones people can taste this in. Either way, it mellows out considerably with time. Set the wine aside and keep trying a bottle every few months. Wait a year if you can. Since it doesn't taste good to you now, it will be easy to resist.

Generally buy a higher end kit and you will experience less of the effect.

By the way, only a relatively small percentage of people can taste this effect. You are one of the lucky ones. LOL

 

[TonyP]

It sounds like an overuse of sorbate. If you used a kit the measurements should be correct and sortbate was probably not included anyway. Did you add sorbate of your own? If so, you're probably toast. The taste will increase with age.

It's also possible you still have not degassed sufficiently. Have you determined that the wine is fully degassed? If so, how? Your wine could contain off-flavors and aromas from esters, terpenes and ketones trapped in the gas.

However, it's also possible (but not likely) the concentrate in your kit was not processed properly. Try contacting WE. Their customer service and technical people are very good.

Tony P.

 

[MonkeyK]

I followed the kit instructions as exactly as I was able. There is still some gas that needs to evolve, but I've done quite a bit of agitation and vacuum degassing already.
I will contact WE and see what they say.

 

[grapeman]

The topic of KT has been debated at length for years and yes that is what you likely taste here. Just what causes it is what is debated. Usually it goes away after about a year. WE kits are one of the most often cited brands as having it and yes, the kit you made is one of the "Value Line" ones I described. They are more concentrated than other llines that WE makes and are only 10 liters of juice concentrate. I doubt you added too much sorbate since that comes pre-measured and you followed the instructions as listed here

http://www.midwestsupplies.com/media/downloads/170/Vintners%20Reseve.pdf

 

[robie]

When you open a bottle, if it is still fizzy, just decant it for from 1 to 4 hours and the fizz will go away.

If it is fizzy, you will notice that the aroma is not very full. As it decants and the CO2 blows off, the aroma will get better and better.

As Grapeman said, stick with the better kits and your results will be worth it.

If I were you, I'd put this batch aside for at least a year, maybe 2. My personal experience has shown me that KT doesn't go away completely for at least 2 years. Again, that's just my experience with what I have made.

 

[ibglowin]

Sorbate can cause the bubble gum taste even if used properly. I don't use it ever just for that reason unless adding a "flavour reserve pack" post fermentation.

That said, it will go away with time. Usually about a year.

 

[MonkeyK]

So what do you do instead of adding sorbate?

 

[ibglowin]

Don't use it if the wine is fermented to dry. No need for it.

 

[MonkeyK]

I can't see myself waiting two years for this wine. I think that I'll just bottle a few to give me something to think about, and toss the rest of this batch.

It's odd, my first kit was a WE VR Chardonnay. It did not have this taste.
OTOH, I didn't follow the instructions on that one. In the secondary fermentation, I let it on the lees for two months and stirred it all up twice a week for the first month.
I also added a large handful of oak cubes to the secondary.

A month after bottling the Chardonnay, it was pretty good, but it has been degrading over time.

Second kit was the CC LE Red Mountain Trio. That was close to the instructions and really good. No way it will even make it to a year of aging.

 

[wyntheef]

perhaps not the cause, but excess gas can be difficult to remove. i have found stirring (with a drill attachment) even for as much as 1/2 hour does not necessarily mean you have removed enough gas (i also have uncorked and returned wine to the carboy for this reason).
the problem in my case, which may or may not be like yours, was that i was presuming the wine to be degassed based on the faulty thinking that if i degassed for a while, the gas must be gone.
it wasn't. at least not for a few batches. and i ended up doing a lot of extra work to fix it.
for unknown reasons (possibly temperature, barometer, source or whatever), some wines degas easily and others do not. i personally can not always tell one from the other just by watching bubbles.


someone on the forum here posted this technique that is simple and works well: placing a small amount of wine in a 250 or 375 bottle and shaking well for a few seconds with thumb or finger over the opening and then releasing to see if there is too much gas. do this to determine if you have removed enough.

 

[robie]

I can't see myself waiting two years for this wine. I think that I'll just bottle a few to give me something to think about, and toss the rest of this batch.

It's odd, my first kit was a WE VR Chardonnay. It did not have this taste.
OTOH, I didn't follow the instructions on that one. In the secondary fermentation, I let it on the lees for two months and stirred it all up twice a week for the first month.
I also added a large handful of oak cubes to the secondary.

A month after bottling the Chardonnay, it was pretty good, but it has been degrading over time.

Second kit was the CC LE Red Mountain Trio. That was close to the instructions and really good. No way it will even make it to a year of aging.

White kits don't seem to have as much of the KT as the reds do.

As mentioned, don't add sorbate unless you intend to sweeten the wine.

 

[grapeman]

Get yourself some free bottles and bottle it all. Just set it aside like it isn't there- remember you threw it away (only you really didn't). After that year or two- it may be pretty good. Don't ever throw it out because you don't like it. They have a way of coming around to be pretty good sometimes.

 

[Boatboy24]

MonkeyK:

I notice it on the CC Showcase Old Vine Zin I started in April, though I think it's subsiding with time. My Red Mountain Trio doesn't seem to have it as much, though I can smell and taste it a bit. I'm hoping time will cure this. I'm going to try going without Sorbate on my next few dry red kits. Interestingly, I've done two Vino Italiano kits (very low end) and can't taste it in either one of those. Go figure...

 

[robie]

MonkeyK:
I'm going to try going without Sorbate on my next few dry red kits. .

There is just no good reason to use sorbate if you are not going to sweeten the wine. Just make sure the wine ferments all the way to dry.

 

[wineh]

sanitation is crucial

There is just no good reason to use sorbate if you are not going to sweeten the wine. Just make sure the wine ferments all the way to dry.

Well, actually, sorbate will supress a number of biological critters that can invade your wine if your cleanliness is not next to you know what. I quit using sorbate after a discussion here, but I really improved my sanitation regime to compensate for the lack of Potassium Sorbate.

 

[robie]

Well, actually, sorbate will supress a number of biological critters that can invade your wine if your cleanliness is not next to you know what. I quit using sorbate after a discussion here, but I really improved my sanitation regime to compensate for the lack of Potassium Sorbate.

I think you have sorbate mixed up with Kmeta. Sorbate only renders the yeast incapable of multiplying; it doesn't do anything to protect the wine. It's the Kmeta (sulfites) that can suppress the criters. That's why sorbate can be skipped if not sweetening the wine.

 

[wineh]

sorbate is a preservative

I think you have sorbate mixed up with Kmeta. Sorbate only renders the yeast incapable of multiplying; it doesn't do anything to protect the wine. It's the Kmeta (sulfites) that can suppress the criters. That's why sorbate can be skipped if not sweetening the wine.

I don't think I have. I do agree with most of your post, except the part about sorbate only suppressing yeast multiplication. I have attached a link to some additional information.
http://www.winexpert.com/wine-wiki/show/Sorbate,+Use+of
there is also a "wine wizard" article at winemakermag.com that states much the same.