Cellar Craft How do I introduce more complicated flavors to a kit?

[waygorked]

I'm running a CC Yakima Valley Syrah kit at the moment, sitting in bulk aging on a spiral of french oak. I pulled out 3 bottles one month after adding the oak spiral, and replaced them with viognier. At that point, it was very tasty but not at all complicated. One note plus oak. I added a bit of extra tannin, and may put in some glycerine to thicken up the legs. I experimented with adding this to the 3 bottles and liked the results. I also played around with a couple of fruit extracts. I can see these being useful in extremely small doses.

I am not, however, after a fruit bomb with this wine. A good Syrah, at least the ones I gravitate towards, has an almost savory character on the finish. Some of that I know will come with further aging and integration of the oak. Is there anything else I can do with additives to enhance that savory funk?

 

[Boatboy24]

Time is probably one of your best tools, but I did a CC Sterling Syrah about 20 months ago. It was still in the carboy after nearly a year, falling flat on my expectations. It was so "blah" that I was very close to dumping it. I had already given it a healthy dose of oak and Grand Cru and was at a bit of a loss. Ultimately, I put several Tellicherry peppercorns in the carboy for a couple weeks, and gave it a little sugar (make sure you've got your sorbate and sulfite in there if you do this). It really made a huge difference, in both helping the fruit come out, and give it a little spice/smoke from the peppercorns. Be careful with the peppercorns though. They can impart a lot of flavor very quickly. I thought I had grossly overdone it, but after about 8 months in the bottle, I'm really starting to like it.

 

[waygorked]

Peppercorns. Love it!

This is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. What else would be a suitable addition to elevate it past the fruit + oak level?

 

[Boatboy24]

By the way, I have the Yakima Syrah clearing now. Really looking forward to it.

 

[waygorked]

You'll dig it, but it really does need the tannins fattened up a bit. Otherwise very tasty.

 

[waygorked]

How many peppercorns would you suggest? I'm thinking of tossing in a few coffee beans as well...

 

[ibglowin]

What else would be a suitable addition to elevate it past the fruit + oak level?

6mo in a Vadai Barrel and 2 years in the bottle seems to work really well for me. Just had a bottle last night. Awesome wine.

 

[Gwand]

Time is probably one of your best tools, but I did a CC Sterling Syrah about 20 months ago. It was still in the carboy after nearly a year, falling flat on my expectations. It was so "blah" that I was very close to dumping it. I had already given it a healthy dose of oak and Grand Cru and was at a bit of a loss. Ultimately, I put several Tellicherry peppercorns in the carboy for a couple weeks, and gave it a little sugar (make sure you've got your sorbate and sulfite in there if you do this). It really made a huge difference, in both helping the fruit come out, and give it a little spice/smoke from the peppercorns. Be careful with the peppercorns though. They can impart a lot of flavor very quickly. I thought I had grossly overdone it, but after about 8 months in the bottle, I'm really starting to like it.

Jim,
For the slight sweetness you mention, how much sugar per volume. Thanks.

 

[Broge5]

I have one of these SC Yakima Syrahs that's been resting in the carboy for a few months that I've been meaning to bottle for the last week or two. Now you guys are making me want to add some stuff to it and let it sit there little longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[Boatboy24]

How many peppercorns would you suggest? I'm thinking of tossing in a few coffee beans as well...

Maybe 10. But taste after a week and see if you want to let it go a little further.

I think the point that Mike (ibglowin) made though is a good one. This is a premium kit we are talking about. Mine was a 12L kit with a small grape pack. 12-18 months of age is going to make a big difference on this. If you're in a hurry to drink it, consider splitting it and letting half the batch bulk age for a year, then bottle age for a while. The other half, you could play with and drink early, but save a few bottles for comparing down the road.

 

[Boatboy24]

Jim,
For the slight sweetness you mention, how much sugar per volume. Thanks.

Gary,

It wasn't much at all - 3 tablespoons, if my memory isn't failing. My note taking skills were failing when I did this, and I didn't write it down.

I think TonyT sweetens a lot of his reds with a couple ounces of simple syrup. Maybe he'll see this and chime in with what he does.

 

[cocroach]

Great post! Thanks for starting this! I'll be trying out some of these techniques myself.

 

[waygorked]

Does anyone have thoughts regarding how to introduce earthy tones to a kit?

 

[Broge5]

Dirt?


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[Boatboy24]

Does anyone have thoughts regarding how to introduce earthy tones to a kit?

Dried mushrooms? An old leather belt? Tobacco leaves?

Edit: I'm half serious about the mushrooms. Was thinking dried Porcini, but I have no idea what that would do to your wine.

 

[Broge5]

Sorry. Was just the first thing that came to mind.

I like earthy flavors as well. But I have no idea what to add.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[waygorked]

I just added a few peppercorns, along with a few juniper berries. I'm all over the mushroom idea. The taste I am after is a hint of brettanomyces, that crazy earthy funk that comes from nasty wild yeast that has infested thousand year old equipment despite efforts to control it that have lasted just as long. Dried mushroom seems like a path towards that goal without any of the same risks. Just a hint of brett, and a wine becomes stellar. Just a bit more, and it smells and tastes like an oft-used barnyard floor (which we don't want).

Any suggestions on what kind of mushroom to try? I'm thinking about tossing in a truffle or two.

I originally thought I had over-oaked it (kit oak plus a medium toast french spiral), so I put in a couple of bottles of viognier 2 weeks ago. It transformed it, in a really, really good way. If I stopped now, the wine would be stellar, just not quite as interesting as I think it could still become. The nose is now amazing, but now it is also a tiny bit under-oaked. I want to add a different oak layer other than the kit oak and the french oak. Given the deep funk I crave, any suggestions on what kind of oak to try next?

 

[cocroach]

I've only become aware of achieving earthy flavour profiles through the use of different yeast strains. See link: http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

If you try the truffles, please follow up on how it turned out. I'd be interested in finding out. My experience in using truffles in cooking is a little goes a long way!

 

[Tess]

Id imagine you can add just about anything. Iv been going the lazy rout with the cheaper kits and adding pure extract I get from Olive Nation. I mix then up too

 

[Tess]

I like the mushroom idea also!