Foaming up into the airlock!

[Vinegar]

Yesterday I started a gallon of onion wine and a gallon of garlic wine I have made these before never had a problem and they started bubbling pretty quickly today they started foaming up into the airlocks one of them actually built up enough pressure that it blew the airlock right off!
Why?

 

[BigDaveK]

The generally accepted practice is to use an open bucket for primary fermentation. Foaming is normal and some ferments can be VERY robust.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* Foam is normal, the quantity of foam can be moderated by selecting a low foam yeast. Some plants have lots of mucilage which helps stabilize the foam.
* A tool to reduce the production is to reduce the temperature. You are slowing the rate of gas production which means the bubbles have more time to pop.
* You can’t as a home wine makes but factory scale production has “anti-foam” agents that can be added.

 

[QuiQuog]

Also, you don't want to use an airlock during primary fermentation. The yeast need oxygen. Which is another reason to use an open bucket instead of a jug.

 

[Rice_Guy]

an example, WMT and the club warned me about chocolate powder, but I did a normal rack at 1.010

a generality, molecules in the oil family like to foam

 

[Budding Vintner]

The generally accepted practice is to use an open bucket for primary fermentation. Foaming is normal and some ferments can be VERY robust.

I'm brand new to this hobby and have just finished my first kit, and as I learn I'm seeing that open fermentation seems to be the standard. Why then do most kit instructions advise to close the primary fermenter and utilize an airlock right from the start? I thought that was the right way to do it at first, but my education is proceeding rapidly The equipment kit I bought from Northern Brewer included a BMB as primary, so that's what I've been using. Now I'm thinking I should switch to a bucket.

 

[Rice_Guy]

first of all welcome to WMT

I'm brand new to this hobby and have just finished my first kit, and as I learn I'm seeing that open fermentation seems to be the standard. Why then do most kit instructions advise to close the primary fermenter and utilize an airlock right from the start? I thought that was the right way to do it at first, but my education is proceeding rapidly The equipment kit I bought from Northern Brewer included a BMB as primary, so that's what I've been using. Now I'm thinking I should switch to a bucket.

* yeast need oxygen to reproduce themselves. ALL recipes have oxygen for the yeast to grow. Yes a mead might say use a closed container and then do a treatment to add more oxygen at 1/3 sugar loss.
* most grape suggests using an open bucket where about half of the volume could fill with foam. ALL recipes have to compensate for foam that that fruit typically produces
* different yeast have higher or lower tendency to create foam
* wine is a traditional process, with work one can find examples for both cases to work

 

[winemaker81]

Why then do most kit instructions advise to close the primary fermenter and utilize an airlock right from the start?

Wine kit instructions are optimized for beginners who have no experienced help. Everything is intended to keep the beginner from making mistakes and is geared towards producing a good result every time. In that respect, kit instructions are really good, although some vendors have better instructions than others.

Experienced winemakers typically put a towel over the primary fermenter to keep "stuff" out, which can include insects, while allowing O2 in. I suspect the mindset behind the kit instructions is that if the beginner snaps the lid on, NOTHING is getting in.

Note -- during fermentation O2 is yeast's friend, as it needs it for reproduction. Post fermentation the O2 is wine's enemy, as it oxidizes the wine.

 

[BigDaveK]

I'm brand new to this hobby and have just finished my first kit, and as I learn I'm seeing that open fermentation seems to be the standard. Why then do most kit instructions advise to close the primary fermenter and utilize an airlock right from the start? I thought that was the right way to do it at first, but my education is proceeding rapidly The equipment kit I bought from Northern Brewer included a BMB as primary, so that's what I've been using. Now I'm thinking I should switch to a bucket.

Home wine making is always evolving. I have a collection of older books and for 50ish years it was recommended to use an airlock immediately. It works. Which method is optimal? Better minds than mine need to answer. Two of my earliest wines went under airlock from the start (bucket and lid with airlock, following the recipe) and I was happy with the result. I vaguely remember reading yeast need 4ish ppm diffused oxygen to reproduce and most musts, because of atmospheric pressure, have 8ish ppm diffused oxygen. (Don't quote me on that...fuzzy memory.) I use an open bucket exclusively but sometimes I wonder if I lose a small portion of volatile flavors and aromas.

 

[Jusatele]

Using Speidel fermenters the air lock is huge compared to bubblers
plus i leave good headspace.
Having brewed a lot of beer for years I do like an airlock. However I started making wines in the 80s using a towel over a ice chest that was my primary. as long as active fermentation is going on CO2 is going out at such a level most things do not get into the wine past a towel.
I learned doing beer to do an oxygen injection before pitching the yeast, I do that to charge the must in wine now.
One thing a friend of mine does, he uses 1 gallon jugs to make wine, is he holds back about 12 ozs of water in the primary so he has head space, adds it in after the first rack.

 

[Budding Vintner]

Well, everything went as the kit predicted, which is a Master Vintner Reserve Cab. So maybe at this beginner level it doesn't really matter if the primary is open or closed. In keeping with the instructions (which I didn't find particularly clear in some areas), I bottled around 4 weeks. It tasted way too young as expected, but was actually drinkable. It was a little bit hazy though, so I jumped the gun a tad on the bottling. I may just age in the carboy for a few months next time. Indeed, it seems the kits are designed to produce a drinkable wine in as short a time as possible.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. Back to foaming airlocks...

 

[winemaker81]

I may just age in the carboy for a few months next time.

I was originally taught to not bottle before 4 months, e.g., 1 month to ferment and do initial clear, and 3 months of bulk aging. In years of discussion on this forum, it became clear to me that this original rule is a good one. You may reach the point where you're bulk aging wine a lot longer.

Last night my son and I moved one of our barrels to his house along with wine to fill it, as he's taking custody of it. In discussions with some of his friends he was asked how long the wine would sit and when it would be ready to drink. They were shocked that we won't bottle until next November and our guess so far is that this wine will want a year of bottle aging. Oh, it will be drinkable a month after bottling, but will be far better a year later.

This one is a couple of Sangiovese juice buckets fermented with the pomace from Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Merlot, e.g., it's sort of a Chianti. We have high hopes for this one, which is good, as we have over 20 gallons of it.

 

[Budding Vintner]

This one is a couple of Sangiovese juice buckets fermented with the pomace from Cabernet Franc, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Merlot, e.g., it's sort of a Chianti.

Interesting. Did you remove the pomace when fermentation was complete, or leave it for a period of time afterward (EM?).

At some point I'm sure I'll want to graduate to frozen grapes or juice buckets. I live in Colorado, so fresh grapes may not be possible for me to acquire from California. Although, there are vineyards in Colorado on the other side of the Rockies from me within a few hours drive. I don't know if they'd sell grapes in small quantities, but it may be worth inquiring. I should also see about joining a local club.

 

[winemaker81]

Interesting. Did you remove the pomace when fermentation was complete, or leave it for a period of time afterward (EM?).

I did a light press on the pomace. We got a third barrel (nominally 55 liters) and with two 23 liter juice buckets, wanted to get 18-20 liters from the pomace of 20 lugs. The overall result was over 90 liters. Enough that my son and I looked at each other and started counting empty carboys, figuring where we'd put it all before it was ready for barrel. [Yeah, things worked out]

At some point I'm sure I'll want to graduate to frozen grapes or juice buckets. I live in Colorado, so fresh grapes may not be possible for me to acquire from California.

I'm in NC and most of my grapes come from CA. You'll have to search to see who will ship into your area.

Frozen just and must buckets are a possibility, but the cost is significantly higher.