Fall 2023 Experiments

[winemaker81]

How terribly wasteful. I’m glad you can reuse them.

And beautiful looking grapes.

Yes, I hate tossing things out. When I stop in at area wineries, I'm going to ask if they could use free lugs, and if so, I'll invite them to clean up at next year's crush. Anything that doesn't go in the landfill is good.

These grapes were all nice. I have high hopes!

 

[winemaker81]

Today was a busy day and I didn't get to touch my grapes until 8 PM. My testing results are interesting:

Cabernet Franc 1 (4 lugs): SG 1.096, pH 3.77
Cabernet Franc 2 (4 lugs): SG 1.094, pH 3.75
Cabernet Sauvignon 1 (4 lugs): SG 1.102, pH 3.75
Cabernet Sauvignon 2 (4 lugs): SG 1.103, pH 3.72
Merlot 1 (3 lug): SG 1.103, pH 4.07
Merlot 2 (1 lug): SG: 1.108, pH 4.13

After reading the Merlot pH, I recalibrated the meter and got the same exact result, so it appears correct.

The CS and CF are under pH 3.8 so I didn't adjust acid. The Merlot are so high I added 2 tsp and 1 tsp tartaric acid, respectively. This was eye-ball as I'm rushed. I will review the numbers and possibly add 1/4 tsp adjustments as I go. I expect all batches to have added tartaric acid post-fermentation, adjusted by taste.

The plan was the CF and CS batches would be inoculated with Renaissance Avante and Bravo, so each varietal would have 2 strains after blending. Merlot would get Bravo for both batches. Because I was rushing, I screwed up.

CF received Avante and Bravo. CS got Bravo for both, while Merlot got Avante in the large batch and Bravo in the small one.

Although I'm a bit irritated with myself, in the end it's not a real problem. If this is the worst mistake I make, I'm satisfied.

 

[winemaker81]

We have ignition! All 6 containers are well into fermentation this morning.

I'm going to re-calibrate the pH meter with fresh solution (supposed to be good for a month of use, but I'm tossing it), and will check pH again when I check SG again, probably Wednesday. I suspect the figures are correct, but it's worth being sure.

 

[Obbnw]

We have ignition! All 6 containers are well into fermentation this morning.

I'm going to re-calibrate the pH meter with fresh solution (supposed to be good for a month of use, but I'm tossing it), and will check pH again when I check SG again, probably Wednesday. I suspect the figures are correct, but it's worth being sure.

I don't trust my ph meter. The variation in ph readings is disconcerting. The directions on the monitor I bought don't inspire confidence, "recalibrate if the reading seems wrong".

I go in circles when I check ph;
test solution, wine, water,
test solution, wine, water,
until I get stable results.

Even then I don't feel confident.

The meter says 0.01 accuracy but based on repeatability of results it seems like +/- 0.05 is the best I can hope for.

 

[winemaker81]

I don't trust my ph meter. The variation in ph readings is disconcerting. The directions on the monitor I bought don't inspire confidence, "recalibrate if the reading seems wrong".

I was surprised by the Merlot being over 4.0, but having high pH from CA grapes is not a surprise. I'm also not surprised by the differences between the batches, as every grape is potentially different. When grapes are tested prior to picking, a large sample produces a better average, but a batch being high or lower in brix or pH is normal. I didn't check anything until the day after crush, to let the batches normalize as much as they are going to.

 

[VinesnBines]

I was surprised by the Merlot being over 4.0, but having high pH from CA grapes is not a surprise.

You have a low ph/acidic Chamboucin that is begging to marry the Cali grapes.

 

[winemaker81]

You have a low ph/acidic Chamboucin that is begging to marry the Cali grapes.

I'm considering what I'm going to do -- I was thinking of blending Merlot into the Chambourcin, but have time to consider.

 

[Hazelemere]

You have a low ph/acidic Chamboucin that is begging to marry the Cali grapes.

you got it!

 

[Hazelemere]

Blending French American and Vinifera hybrids with high brix and or low acid California grapes. This works every time as long as the flavours don't clash. We always use hybrids this way and always get a good or even excellent result doing this. Having said that you really need to know how to taste and smell properly. If you are unsure on how to blend let your significant other and/or winemaking friends experiment with you on the blends. We did 74% Petite Sirah (sky high brix) with 26% Regent and got a really good wine lightyears better than the Petite Sirah on its own. Regent has Chambourcin as a parent. I can't grow Chambourcin because I don't get enough heat units in the Pacific Northwest. It sounds like it is perfect for the east coast due in part to excellent resistance to downy mildew. I can ripen Regent and Marechal Foch and go with those even though they are slightly high in acid. The acid in the hybrids makes the Petite Sirah smell more interesting and develop a much more complex flavour at lower alcohol. If you are lucky enough to find Petite Sirah at 24 to 25 brix you don't need to blend with hybrids. Once you get to 26+ brix everything changes and the hybrids can do their magic. Good luck to all of you with your wines.

PS If I lived on the east coast I'd grow Chambourcin, Regent, Marechal Foch, Chelois and possibly Baco Noir.

 

[VinesnBines]

Blending French American and Vinifera hybrids with high brix and or low acid California grapes. This works every time as long as the flavours don't clash. We always use hybrids this way and always get a good or even excellent result doing this. Having said that you really need to know how to taste and smell properly. If you are unsure on how to blend let your significant other and/or winemaking friends experiment with you on the blends. We did 74% Petite Sirah (sky high brix) with 26% Regent and got a really good wine lightyears better than the Petite Sirah on its own. Regent has Chambourcin as a parent. I can't grow Chambourcin because I don't get enough heat units in the Pacific Northwest. It sounds like it is perfect for the east coast due in part to excellent resistance to downy mildew. I can ripen Regent and Marechal Foch and go with those even though they are slightly high in acid. The acid in the hybrids makes the Petite Sirah smell more interesting and develop a much more complex flavour at lower alcohol. If you are lucky enough to find Petite Sirah at 24 to 25 brix you don't need to blend with hybrids. Once you get to 26+ brix everything changes and the hybrids can do their magic. Good luck to all of you with your wines.

PS If I lived on the east coast I'd grow Chambourcin, Regent, Marechal Foch, Chelois and possibly Baco Noir.

I am growing Chambourcin, Chelois, Foch and Baco. Best performer being Chambourcin and worst being Baco. Baco Noir and I are trying to work out how to perform better.

We just barely have enough GDD for Chambourcin. We picked the last on October 18. In some years we have had a freeze as early as October 1. Fortunately, we haven't had a freeze or hard frost, yet. That will change this week.

 

[Cynewulf]

PS If I lived on the east coast I'd grow Chambourcin, Regent, Marechal Foch, Chelois and possibly Baco Noir.

I don’t want to hijack winemaker81’s thread, but I added Regent and Chelois to my Virginia vineyard last year to try some other hybrid alternatives to the Marquette that I also grow. I also planted some Petit Sirah for just the reason you suggested: to blend with the hybrids (plus it’s supposed to be a vinifera variety that is more resistant to downy mildew than my Cabernet Franc). All are doing really well and I hope I’ll get something from the hybrids next year.

 

[Hazelemere]

I don’t want to hijack winemaker81’s thread, but I added Regent and Chelois to my Virginia vineyard last year to try some other hybrid alternatives to the Marquette that I also grow. I also planted some Petit Sirah for just the reason you suggested: to blend with the hybrids (plus it’s supposed to be a vinifera variety that is more resistant to downy mildew than my Cabernet Franc). All are doing really well and I hope I’ll get something from the hybrids next year.

Then you are a valuable resource for sure to this website together with vinesnbines. What a coincidence. Good luck to both of you!

 

[winemaker81]

I don’t want to hijack winemaker81’s thread

Hijack away! We'll get back on track eventually ...


EDIT: Start a thread on this topic in the grape growing forum. It's a good topic to explore and it deserves its own thread.

 

[winemaker81]

I've got 2 Sangiovese juice buckets chilling, but they're not cold enough. One is fermenting. I opened it up, added 2 tsp nutrient and 2 tsp Bravo, then added extra ice to the Brute it's in. I've got my fingers crossed.

It's going to be below 40 F tonight. I'm considering putting both buckets outside the back door.

 

[VinesnBines]

I know it would take a lot of room but if you had enough milk or water jugs, you could divide to gallon jugs and either chill in the refrigerator or freeze the juice. I'm sure you have considered this. Perhaps freeze some of the juice and add it back to the bucket.

 

[winemaker81]

I'm out of fridge space, and wish I had room to buy a used one for this purpose. I hoped that keeping the buckets surrounded by ice in Brutes would work, but it's not quite cold enough.

Buying ice gets expensive, so yesterday I purchased a case of 16 oz water bottles and put them in the big freezer. I left the melted water in the Brutes and squeezed 6 water bottles around the buckets in each Brute. No need to sanitize the bottles since they're outside the bucket, not in it.

I opened the downstairs windows and it's currently below 50 F, so that should help.

FYI, my house was originally a ranch which we designed to later expand into the attic. However ... the architect failed to allow for a future staircase up and our builder missed it (for which he apologized). We'd have to sacrifice a bedroom to gain walk-up access to the attic.

Our solution? We put an addition on the back that includes a staircase into the attic, and since the land slopes, we have a room under the addition.

The kicker? The contractor cut a hole in the foundation, took a Bobcat under the house and dug out half of the crawl space to create a cellar. Technically, it is a crawlspace, but I could walk through the back half of it without bending. So we have a room downstairs (TV room) that leads into the cellar (wine making area).

With the windows open it's certainly chilly down there. I'm not concerned about stunting the CA grape batches, as they're plenty warm.

 

[winemaker81]

I went to do my morning punch down ... son-of-a-female-puppy-dog ... I could smell H2S around the one juice bucket, the one that hadn't been puffing up a bit. Obviously I didn't keep them cold enough.

I broke the seal, and the H2S smell was there, but it was not strong, even at close sniff. I stirred the bucket and didn't get much bad smell, so I caught it early.

For those not familiar with H2S, count your blessings! It reeks!

So I checked SG: 1.060, it's definitely fermenting (yeah, I already knew this). So I added 4 tsp YAN (got a big bag for free courtesy of Amazon and a cheating vendor) and 2 tsp Bravo, plus 1/4 tsp K-meta to address any adverse effects.

I checked the other bucket, SG 1.055. No H2S smell, but I added an additional 2 tsp YAN and 1/4 tsp K-meta.

It's currently 32 F / 0 C outside, so I put the buckets on my back step. I'll leave them there until the temperature gets above 40 F (4.5 C).

I'm hoping the Bravo additions will overtake whatever yeast came in the bucket, but at this point I'm simply looking to address the H2S (which is probably done as I caught it early), and to stop additional fermentation.

I need to check SG on my main fermenters -- we are currently planning to press on Sunday, but I may shift to Saturday to get the juice buckets into the pomace quicker. I'll discuss with my son once I know the SG readings.

There is no worry about the cold temperature affecting the Bravo I added to the buckets. That is simply a short term fix to hopefully prevent the native yeast from doing much more.. The grapes are full of Avante and Bravo, so when I pour the juice buckets into the pomace (post-pressing) those should overtake whatever is in the buckets.

I expect the juice buckets + pomace will be a success, based upon last year's kits + pomace, but need to seriously think about how to keep those buckets near freezing next year.

 

[winemaker81]

The buckets are continuing a slow ferment. This morning it's 32 F outside, so I moved the buckets outside.

The buckets are fermenting, I've been unable to prevent that ... so on to Plan B.

On Sunday we press the CS, CF, & M, and will divide the pomace between 2 Brutes, then pour a bucket into each. At this point it doesn't matter how much or little fermentation is left to go, we'll press these batches the following Saturday. I'm sure fermentation will be complete before then.

Fermentation completes when it completes, and the days between then and pressing are a short Extended Maceration.

Nothing has actually changed since last night, but now I'm comfortable with what is going to happen. Just a simple acceptance of a reality I appear unable to change.

Assuming everything works out fine, next year we'll attend things a bit differently. When we get the buckets home, we will immediately add our desired yeast + nutrient, then seal the buckets and do our best to chill them. If they ferment, well, then they ferment, but hopefully we'll have avoided any possibility of H2S. Then proceed as outlined above.

 

[Cynewulf]

The buckets are continuing a slow ferment. This morning it's 32 F outside, so I moved the buckets outside.

The buckets are fermenting, I've been unable to prevent that ... so on to Plan B.

On Sunday we press the CS, CF, & M, and will divide the pomace between 2 Brutes, then pour a bucket into each. At this point it doesn't matter how much or little fermentation is left to go, we'll press these batches the following Saturday. I'm sure fermentation will be complete before then.

Fermentation completes when it completes, and the days between then and pressing are a short Extended Maceration.

Nothing has actually changed since last night, but now I'm comfortable with what is going to happen. Just a simple acceptance of a reality I appear unable to change.

Assuming everything works out fine, next year we'll attend things a bit differently. When we get the buckets home, we will immediately add our desired yeast + nutrient, then seal the buckets and do our best to chill them. If they ferment, well, then they ferment, but hopefully we'll have avoided any possibility of H2S. Then proceed as outlined above.

The one time I got a juice bucket in 2020, I portioned half of it (un-inoculated) into three one-gallon plastic jugs that I put in the fridge with the idea that I would use it on the pomace for a second run wine. A week later they hadn’t quite exploded, but were bulging such that they looked like they were close. I think that refrigerator temperatures can slow fermentation but can’t prevent it. Nature finds a way. After all, I and many others do slow overnight ferments for bread (also saccharomyces cerevisiae) in the fridge and always end up with risen dough the next day.

 

[winemaker81]

@Cynewulf, you're right. It's a matter of accepting that Mother Nature and Dionysus are in charge and will do as they please, and us mortals figuring out how to work within that.

Just got done texting with one of my son's friends -- She will be coming Sunday morning (with her husband and baby) to help out with the pressing. It's nice to teach a beginner, as they still have that sense of wonder that is often lost with experience.