De-gassing

[Ernest T Bass]

Can you de-gas too much? When you add k-meta to the must in the beginning it vaporizes in 24 hours and is no longer in the must, so you can then add your yeast and it won't hurt the yeast. Seems like it you de-gas after the wine is dry and you add k-meta and sorbate and back sweeten it that you would pull all the k-meta out of your wine?? just wondering--

Semper Fi

 

[Wade E]

kmeta become bound in your wine and that can not be removed! Its why we recommend using S02 testers as every time you add some more becomes bound thus the next time youi need to add some you dont need to add as much. Yes, yoiu can degas too m uch though and thats why you should have a gauge and go by it. When you can get your pump up to around 18" on the gauge for a minute and not have wine or foam flowing up your vac hose you are done!

 

[Ernest T Bass]

I'll try to make this as short as possible. I thought you should get all the CO2 out of your wine. I have a vacuum pump and have always removed all the CO2 I could, sometimes leaving 25" Hg on the carboy for an hour or more, until I could not see any bubbles. This I have done with all my wine, so I guess none of it taste like it should. A couple of questions, - What have I done to my wine? - Can I correct my mistake? - Will my wine go bad soon? - or,
most important, Is it bad now and has always been bad? - If I bought a bottle of store bought wine I would not know what to do to make mine taste like it. I'm just a "little bit" discouraged right now and need some 3rd grade advice or maybe drop down to 1st grade. Right now I think I will never give any more wine away, I don't drink it, I just give it away, my friends are soo nice, they thank me for it and probably go home and pour it down the sink.

Thanks for any help

Semper Fi

 

[rhoffart]

Bud, I don't think CO2 is your problem. But I don't think anyone here can help without a lot more information. I don't think over-degassing is the culprit.

25" for an hour ... that is extreame. My max is 15" for 5 min.

 

[robie]

Hard to follow up for you. CO2 should always be completely removed from your wine unless you are making a sparking wine. Removing it with a vacuum pump won't affect the free SO2 level. However, using a whip can deplete some of the free SO2, if you stir in a lot of air.

25" is really too much for a glass carboy. I never go over 18".

If your wine doesn't taste like you think it should, there are many reasons why this can be.

-Wine not aged long enough.
-Lower end kit, possibly. Higher end kits can make better wine, if done properly.
-You didn't get all the CO2 out, even though you left it under vacuum for an hour. (What temperature was the wine when degassing? Should be above 74F.)

This is only a few. I would guess either aging or CO2 issues.

Just make sure you taste the degassed wine and be sure it doesn't create a fizz on your tongue.

 

[Ernest T Bass]

What information can I give you? As I said, I de-gassed until no bubbles came to the surface, but last week a gave a friend a bottle of muscadine wine that was made 7/11/11 and after he left I opened another bottle from the same batch and it tasted bad, I think the taste was CO2, no sugar or muscadine taste and there was no pressure on the bottle or bubbles when I opened it

Here is what I did and all the wine I have made, I have done about the same way.

Exact copy of my notes-------They are hand written in a note book, I scaned em but can't get them to paste to the reply.

#44
9/18/11- Muscadine - wild- 6 gallons
washed muscadines --approx 4 gallons *
mashed each muscadine by hand
added water to 5 1/2 gallons
added 5/8 tsp k-meta and covered with a towel
* added 1 gallon of scupondines
9/19/11- after adding sugar to get ApGr to 1.084 = 8 3/4 lbs of sugar
ended up with 6 gallons of must
added 3 tsp pectic enzyme
added 3 tsp yeast nutrient
added 1 tsp yeast enigizer
Total = 6 gallons of must
put in grill (heat controlled cabinet made from old charcoal grill) 75*
9/20/11- took it out of big plastic pan and put it in 2 ea , 5 gallon buckets
added 1 packet of yeast to each bucket - red star premier cuvee
9/21/11- SpGr 1.070 @ 9 am
SpGr 1.060 @ 7 pm
keeping must temp at 80*
9/22/11- SpGr 1.050 on both buckets
9/23/11- SpGr 1.024 on both
SpGr 1.020 on both @ 2 pm
9/24/11- SpGr 1.010 on both @10 am
Transferred to 5 gallon carboy with air lock (dipped it out and poured thru a funnel into carboy and put it back in grill still at 80*
9/27/11- SpGr .998
9/28/11- SpGr .996
9/29/11- SpGr .998
Racked on top of 5/8 tsp k-meta and 1 1/4 tsp of sorbate
Degassed
9/30/11- backsweetened to 1.028 with 3 lbs of sugar
added sparkolloid (5 tsp) ---Added 5 tsp of sparkolloid to 8 oz of boiling
water, boiled and stirred for 20 minutes and
added it while hot. (had to add a little water
as it was boiling)
added approx 1 quart of water to get level up in neck of carboy
10/3/11- still some floaters about 2 or 3 inches off the bottom
10/4/11- racked - topped off with some of #45 (second run of muscadines)
10/5/11- filtered (vinebrite filter - I think that's the name of it)
10/7/11- bottled - 20 bottles
12/31/11-found that the muscadine has a lot of CO2 in it - taste bad
empied all bottles in a 3 gallon carboy
SpGr- 1.018
added 4 oz of sugar
SpGr- 1.020
Got wine temp up to 75* and degassed again
racked to 3 gallon carboy and a 750 ml bottle
1/2/12- bottled again - 15 bottles

That's what I did, what did I do wrong, or should I say "what all" did I do wrong.

Thanks for any and all help---remember, keep it at 3rd grade level & Thanks

Semper Fi

 

[robie]

I can't comment on the recipe, as I have never made wine from that grape.

Still think it might be CO2. Open a bottle and pour it into a decanter. Leave it in there for 2 or 3 hours and shake it up a little every 30 minutes or so to loosen any CO2.

If it tastes better after that, it was likely CO2. If not, the wine likely is still too young. Try it again in 6 months or so.

 

[Ernest T Bass]

Robie, The wine taste good right after backsweetening. When it was only about a month old I took some to S.D. with me in October and it was very good then. It was made from fresh picked muscadines and I degassed it at
75*. It taste kinda like a soda with no flavoring. Does this help in figuring out what went wrong?

Semper Fi

 

[WildBill]

I am thinking you may have too much k-meta Bud. I think the amount of k-meta for 5-6 gallons is 1/8th-1/4 tsp per charge. I over sulphited my first batch and I taste it on the finish. It's not bad enough to throw it out though.

 

[jdriver84]

When you guys are talking 18" , 25" and such, what exactly are you referring to?

 

[Ernest T Bass]

jdriver84

I'll try this ?

The earth is covered with a blanket of air pressure. This is what is what we call atmospheric pressure, 14.7 psi, this measurement is taken at sea level and vary's with elevation above sea level and some other factors.

To change this atmospheric pressure to something we can work with. 1 psi is equal to 2.02 inches of mercury (" Hg). we will round of the 2.02 to 2.0. If we multiply 2.0

times 14.7 (atmospheric pressure) we get 29.4 "Hg. Now, if we put a gauge on our carboy it will read "0" (atmospheric pressure). Now we start pulling a vacuum on the carboy the gauge starts going negative, it is removing the atmospheric pressure and the vacuum gauge is increasing from "0" towards 29.4" Hg.



Well, I gave it my best shot

 

[rhoffart]

You are right on Bud.

Please be careful. At some point the carboy will implode ... I hope no one here finds it out?

 

[rhoffart]

[ame]http://youtu.be/bHzhH3B4Nds[/ame]

 

[jdriver84]

So the " is referring to Hg and not inches?

 

[dangerdave]

I don't see how you could "over-degass" your wine. If you're not making sparkling wine, it's not supposed to have any CO2 in it. When you get all the CO2 out, stop degassing. The wine will be fine.

 

[chevs15]

Any thoughts on a wine whip that attaches to a drill? I've read mixed reviews. Actually, some that says it leaves bits of plastic in the wine!

 

[Putterrr]

Any thoughts on a wine whip that attaches to a drill? I've read mixed reviews. Actually, some that says it leaves bits of plastic in the wine!

as far as whips go, this one will last for life and never break down

http://www.noblegrape.ca/videos/wine-whip.asp

 

[Dugger]

So the " is referring to Hg and not inches?

It refers to the location of a column of mercury in inches on a specific type of gauge that measures atmospheric pressure ( type of barometer).

 

[edv]

I would sure love to have one of those electric vacuum pumps, but alas, I use a handheld 'Miti-Vac' (designed for automotive use).

My household rule of thumb is to pump like mad (yeah..it hurts!) to the point where the carboy holds constant at about 20inches of mercury for 5 minutes.

I still maintain that, other things being equal, de-gassing is the best thing you can do (other than sanitation) to ensure quality results in home winemaking.

 

[jdriver84]

I would sure love to have one of those electric vacuum pumps, but alas, I use a handheld 'Miti-Vac' (designed for automotive use).

My household rule of thumb is to pump like mad (yeah..it hurts!) to the point where the carboy holds constant at about 20inches of mercury for 5 minutes.

I still maintain that, other things being equal, de-gassing is the best thing you can do (other than sanitation) to ensure quality results in home winemaking.

That's what I've been using. I picke dup a brake bleeding kit. Generally I pump the hell out of it, to keep it at what reads on my gauge as around -10 PSI. From what I've read, that's a vacuum holding a little more than 20Hg. It sure gets the bubbles coming out of my Skeeter Pee!