Cellar Craft CC enzyme?

[redmust]

Hi there guys n gals


Haven't been writing much here but have been getting started on wine making. Two "boys" are happy and full and just started my Red Mountin Cab. In reading the new thread about grape packs (very cool idea) and the enzyme questions reminded me. My CC kit had the notice about when to add the enzyme but no enzyme was in the box. I've been verycareful about my new obsession and double, triple checked everything. I know this kit is well liked and I see the juice looks awesome. Started it Monday and its beenboiling hard for two days now.


My plan is,after fermentation,to bulk age iton oaktill mid October (about 3 months) then bottle.


I just wonder if this isgoing to be a problem and need to contact someone about the missing enzyme packet?

 

[vcasey]

I don't think its a problem, but give George a call and he'll let you know for sure.

 

[robie]

If it is a problem, you will know it when you rack after secondary fermentation. As the wine level goes down in the sending carboy, its interior walls will become coated with a heavy, milky layer. You will know it if you see it.

Red Mountain, that's a great kit! Be sure to taste test from time to time to make sure you don't over-oak that very special wine, just to make sure...

 

[Bartman]

I started the Red Mountain Cab about 6 weeks ago, it's sitting quietly
in its carboy now. I usually let the must ferment to dry in the primary
~10 days or so, so I didn't rack to the secondary on day 6 or 7 (like
the instructions recommend). I neglected to add the enzyme until SG was
at ~0.998, thought it couldn't hurt, right? Didn't notice any milky
residue at any time, and the enzyme seemed to have no effect.

Bottom
line, the kits are very forgiving and as long as you're trying to do it right,
the kits seem to recognize and appreciate your effort.

Richard,
I'm leaving the Hungarian oak cubes included in the kit in the
secondary for an extended period - probably 2-3 months. I take it your
personal opinion would be that's too much oak, right? Or were you
recommending Sonny not add even more oak than is supplied?

 

[robie]

Bart,

How can I say that is too much oak for someone else, when the amount of oak is a personal preference? I often add extra oak, beyond what was included in the kit. I don't know if Redmust is talking about the oak that comes with the kit or of extra oak (heavy, medium, light toast?).

You have likely done this several times and you know what to expect. Without knowing how experienced Redmust is (new member at least), I was just trying to say that one should do a taste test from time to time to make sure the wine does not get over oaked. Once experienced, Redmust will have a better feel about how long the oak can be left on without any problems. If he already is experienced, he should disregard my suggestion.

It is very unlikely the wine can become over-oaked with the amount of oak that comes with the kit. (This of course would not be the case for someone who does not prefer a typical amount of oak flavoring. I doubt this fits Redmust, since adding oak was emphasized.)

I have a good friend who over-oaked his wine by adding extra oak for too long. He didn't do any periodic taste testing. This has left the wine pretty much undrinkable for a few extra years.

This is why I wrote, "just to be sure". I don't see the problem with my suggestion. Surely I am not the only person on this forum who has ever suggested periodically tasting to make sure the oak turns out just right.

I would further say that I have read (several times) that one should taste the wine for oaking and remove the oak just when the wine slightly starts tasting over-oaked, because by the time aging is complete, the oak should be just right.

 

[Mharris335]

I just did the CC Zin kit a few months back and did not put in the enzyme. I did not get the milk film in the carboy that I used too with CC kits. I know the milk film does nothing to the wine, so I won't use the enzyme. I also did a Walla Walla CC Cab/Merlot that I did not add the enzyme either last month.

 

[robie]

I just did the CC Zin kit a few months back and did not put in the enzyme. I did not get the milk film in the carboy that I used too with CC kits. I know the milk film does nothing to the wine, so I won't use the enzyme. I also did a Walla Walla CC Cab/Merlot that I did not add the enzyme either last month.

I hear you, it is sort of a hit or miss scenario. I don't have any answer as to why only some winemakers with only some kits get the film.

I saved off the top layer of the wine (and still have it) that had the white film layer. If
you put it in a glass and let it set for just a few minutes; then tilt
the glass, you get the same white film on the glass.



Maybe it doesn't affect the taste of the wine, but it looks pretty
unsightly. I doubt most people would want to finish such a glass of wine.

The other person I know, who also got the film, said he siphoned the film off the top and re-racked several times. Each time, in a few weeks the film returned. If that's the case, it seems likely to me that the film would end up in each bottle.

Please understand, I am not trying to be negative or rain on Cellar Craft's parade. I have a Cellar Craft red on order as I write. If the kit comes with the enzyme packet, I will have no problem adding it.

Regardless of the outcome, I look forward to making many Cellar Craft kits in the future. Enough said by me.

 

[Bartman]

Richard, I was just asking if you thought the kit-supplied oak was enough, more than enough, or way too much, since it appeared you had made the Red Mt. Cab before. I haven't, but I've read the glowing reviews and George confirmed that those reports were all true, so I'm excited to have a go at it.

My personal outlook is to generally add as little flavoring/additives as possible, so as to let the inherent taste shine through. I have rarely added more oak than came with the kit, but have also been told that some of my wines might be even better with more oakiness. It's all subjective, I know, but you gotta occasionally try something different, right?

 

[ibglowin]

I have a funny feeling that CC put in a stock Showcase instruction manual that probably mentions the Enzyme whether or not its included, much like the Mosti instructions have instructions for raisins and oak even though not all kits have raisins or oak. Give George a call and he will know for sure one way or another.

As for this kit, I made it last July and I left the included oak cubes in for 3 months after fining and stabilization. I tasted just a bit each month and pulled it off. It seemed just right when I bottled it at 7 months but oak is a very personal thing so you should always let your palate be your guide. I would not personally add any extra oak to this kit. The included amounts are enough to please almost anyone at some point along the way.

Oh and welcome to the forums Redmust!

 

[robie]

Bart,

I can't say for sure, but I believe I tend to like a little more oak than most, so I oftentimes add a few extra cubes during bulk aging.

That being said, I have tasted some French wines that blew me away with oak, so there obviously are people out there who like even more oak than I. They were really overdone, in my opinion. You've heard that saying, "It's like drinking wine inside an oak plant as it is burning down."

I haven't made the Red Mountain kit, personally; just have been going by how well Mike (ibglowin) and others have enjoyed this kit. I wouldn't know about its oak, specifically.

At a local, large liquor store here in town I go to a wine tasting almost every Saturday. I have tasted lots of wines from the Central Valley of California, Napa Valley, and Washington state. I am about 50 years and 5000 tastings away from being any kind of expert on the subject but I am starting to believe that the Washington state reds tend to be more jammy than those in the regions of California. You know what, I do believe I like that! I like to taste the fruit. I said that to say this - I have no doubt I would like the Red Mountain Cab.

I made the CC cab/sav/shiraz blend, but it won't be ready for another year. I won't make anymore Cabs until this one starts becoming depleted. I did add some extra cubes to this kit.

 

[Goodfella]

Early samples of my Red Mountain cab show signs of a fruitier, softer Cab. I'm not sure how I will like the end result. I like spicier, peppery cabs.


But I am definitly excited to see how it turns out with age.

 

[robie]

Goodfella,

based on all I have heard, I'll bet it will turn out better than you think. Remember that my saying "Washington State reds tend to be jammier", is just my own opinion and may not be shared by anyone else.

Something to think about - For me, I like something jammier like the Red Mountain for sipping, while the spicy cabs are better with a nice meal. Again, this is just me, because I tend to like a softer wine, if I am having it without a meal, which I do on a regular basis.

 

[redmust]

Been out of town and out of touch....
The wine is doing nicely, still bubbling away and getting stirred daily. No sign of the white film yet but watching. I called down texas way and the enzyme packet is on the way up. Those guys do good service for sure.


My "plan" was a little vague, sorry. I plan to only use the oak provided with the kit and leave until bottling on October 14th but DO plan to taste along the way. I've tasted already and think this will turn out nicely. I've noticed the mesh bag likes to fill with gas and float up, even with the heavy shot glass inside....good reason to stir and squeeze....


thanks for all the good advice.

 

[Wade E]

Glad you and your wine are doing good.