Can you see this plan going wrong?

[Wiccan_Lager]

Hello all,

been a while since I have been in here. Been real busy at home and work. Don't get the time to relax like I used to. I hope everyone is doing well.

I am hopin to pick your brains with an idea I was having for this years bach of happy juice. This is going to be my first time using multiple strains so I would like to hear if this is just going to come out as a horror show. Hear be out and bare with me.

The blend (in 6 gallon pales)
2 pales of Carignane
2 pales of Old Vine Zinfandel
1 Pale of Garnache
1 Pale of Alicante.

Yeast I plan to use:
Red Star Pasture red
Lalvin ICV-D80
Lalvin ICV-D254
Lalvin Syrah

Now I know people are looking at this like "what the hell is this fat italian kid thinking? 4 yeasts?". But here me out. This is my plan.

Red star - Pitch this into the pale of Alicante. I just need alcohol and color in the alicante. Pitching specialized yeast would really do no justice.

Lalvin Syrah - Pitch this into the Carignane and the grenache. Did a little bit of reading on jack kellers site and a few other articles and this is the yeast he (they) recommend.

ICV D80 nd D254 - The D80 is said to be awesome for Zinfandel BUT it is recommended to blend this with a wine that was fermented with D254. So I figured I could pitch a packet of D80 into 1 pale of Zin and the D254 into the other and then they will blend later as recommended.


One all of these have reached fermentation, I was thinking to let them sit for about 6 months or so (obviosuly racking as needed) so the flavors can develope. After this I was planning to mixe everything together, put a blend of 75% Heavy Toast French oak and 25% Heavy Toast American oak for 2 months.

This is my first time doing multiple strains so I would like to get some feedback as to whether or not this would work and even to get some suggestions on changes. I am open to ideas and recommendation!

And as always, your help is always greatly appreciated and thanked in advance!

 

[robie]

Experimentation is how modern blends got started. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

I know you did not mention doing this, but understand that should you later decide to put more than one yeast strain in the same batch to ferment, they won't always co-exist and co-ferment. Some strains can and some can't. Those that can't will simple fight to the death of the other strain, then start fermenting as though it had been the only strain added.

The spec sheets on each yeast strain should tell you if they can co-ferment.

Good luck!

 

[Rocky]

Wiccan, if I understand correctly what you are doing you will separately ferment 6 buckets of wine. I assume you will ferment them to dry and then blend them. If you do this, you will need not be concerned about yeasts not "playing well" with each other. In my opinion, you have a great experiment going there and you should end up with an excellent wine.

I also like to blend wines and I have done so with co-fermentation and with blending after fermentation is complete. My two most notable blends is a 75% Zinfandel-25% Muscat and a 67% Brunello-33% Barolo. The former is an old (Italian) family favorite and the latter is the result of two wines I made and both were disappointing. The blend, however, is very good.

Keep us up to date on your progress. I think you are on the right track.

 

[Wiccan_Lager]

Experimentation is how modern blends got started. Go for it and let us know how it turns out.

I know you did not mention doing this, but understand that should you later decide to put more than one yeast strain in the same batch to ferment, they won't always co-exist and co-ferment. Some strains can and some can't. Those that can't will simple fight to the death of the other strain, then start fermenting as though it had been the only strain added.

The spec sheets on each yeast strain should tell you if they can co-ferment.

Good luck!

Yes. I read that they basically fight each other and it becomes a wash as one strain dies off. So this is where this idea comes from.

Wiccan, if I understand correctly what you are doing you will separately ferment 6 buckets of wine. I assume you will ferment them to dry and then blend them. If you do this, you will need not be concerned about yeasts not "playing well" with each other. In my opinion, you have a great experiment going there and you should end up with an excellent wine.

I also like to blend wines and I have done so with co-fermentation and with blending after fermentation is complete. My two most notable blends is a 75% Zinfandel-25% Muscat and a 67% Brunello-33% Barolo. The former is an old (Italian) family favorite and the latter is the result of two wines I made and both were disappointing. The blend, however, is very good.

Keep us up to date on your progress. I think you are on the right track.

That is correct. I want to ferment them to dry, let them age seperately for about 6 months and the introduce each variety to each other.

So the concensus is that this should work. Coolio.

By the way, not to sneak in another topic/question in here but I was reading the Lalvin Syrah needs a lot of nutrients. I was looking at Go-Germ to put into my starter. After that, do you think I would need yeast nutrients to be added to the must it'self to allow them to continue fermentation or will the Go-Ferm give the yeast everything it needs?

 

[Wiccan_Lager]

One more thing, this is my plan for Septembers'/Octobers' batch. I plan ahead quite a bit.

 

[wineforfun]

I will try not to hijack this thread but it got me wondering about this blending. So most of you that blend, just ferment two or more varieties down to dry (like you would normally make wine) and then when they are dry, do you take, say, 75% of one and 25% of the other and rack into separate carboys and let them age, or do you let them age first and then blend?

 

[Wiccan_Lager]

I will try not to hijack this thread but it got me wondering about this blending. So most of you that blend, just ferment two or more varieties down to dry (like you would normally make wine) and then when they are dry, do you take, say, 75% of one and 25% of the other and rack into separate carboys and let them age, or do you let them age first and then blend?

I don't know the EXACT answer to this but I am going about it this way. Let them age seperately for about 6 months to allow the flavors that the yeast create to really "blossom" if you will. Then combine them to bulk age all together. I would think that aging them together when they are happily married would make some sort of difference.

But what do I know? I am just the 800 pound gorilla in the room.

 

[Rocky]

I have done it both ways as I noted above. In the Zinfandel-Muscat blend, I knew what I wanted (i.e. 3:1 ratio) so I normally co-ferment, i.e. put the Zinfandel juice and the Muscat juice in the same fermenter and let it go. I have also done this blend by fermenting Zinfandel to dry and Muscat to dry and then blending them. I don't see a lot of difference but I might give a slight nod to blending after fermentation and bulk aging. In the case of the Brunello and Barolo blend, I had two wines in bulk aging and I did not really like either. The Brunello was very heavy and dark and the Barolo was very thin and light. I bench and taste tested three ratios 50-50, 75-25 and 67-33, Brunello to Barolo, and chose the last one. It was very fulfilling to take all that wine (about 24 gallons) that I was not fond of and create a wine which I feel is one of my best.

 

[Dom]

I would watch my grandfather make this blend of wine (75% Zin and 25% Muscat) when I was growing up in Warren Ohio. I am trying to replicate it now using Alexanders Juice Concentrate.

 

[Turock]

Regarding nutrient--the Go-Ferm alone is not enough because it's a rehydration nutrient that provides micronutrients and sterols to the yeast during the yeast rehydration phase. But you still need nitrogen. I would use Fermaid K which is a complete nutrient that includes DAP and organic nitrogen. It's always recommended to use Go-Ferm with Fermaid K. The smoothest ferments are those with a balance of organic AND inorganic nitrogen, and because your yeast has high nitrogen requirements, I think the Fermaid K would be a good choice. Be sure to step-feed the nutrient.