Cab Franc vines dead

[Dennis Griffith]

Ok, last year I added 11 Cab Franc vines to my vineyard. They did well and produced several canes last year. I pruned them in March (this spring) while still dormant and they looked good. Since then we had had a lot of rain and at times the water stood around the vines. We also had a freeze in mid May, and up to that point the vines semed vital and were undergoing bud swell. Since then the vines have died (all 11). They did not appear to be under stress nor was there evidence of any damage (bug or otherwise). These vines are rated for Zone 6 and I live in Zone 6A. I would think the vines would be hardy enough for this zone, but the evidence seems to point at the freeze killing them. These were grafted vines (root stock 101-14). I've given these vines long enough and am getting ready to start dissecting one to examine the vine to see what I can find. My question is has any one else had similar experiences and does anyone have an opinion to share? Thanks in advance.

A pic from last June one month after planting.



A shot this June.

 

[ibglowin]

Do you have recall on what the lowest temps were for a sustained amount of time? Did you have a really dry Winter?

Start by scraping the main trunk with your thumb nail and see if its brown or green.

 

[salcoco]

do as above don't give up the grapes will still try to grow if growth below the graft remove if above the graft retain.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Today I discovered some sprouts on four of the vines (one each). The trunk is still viable below the union (scratch test) and these sprouts are above the union. Maybe these vines will rebound, but this raises some questions in my mind. Weather here is unpredictable and we get warm spells late winter/early spring followed by a freeze or frost just about every year. With this being the conditions, am I going to face having to regrow a cane/cordon from the graft to the fruiting wine every year this happens? Are last years retained canes hardy enough for conditions here? These are my first Cab Franc vines and I had always heard they were hardy enough for this region. I typically pick vines/trees that are rated at least a Zone 5 or colder as I have been burned on other vines/trees 'rated' at Zone 6. I'm concerned that I may spend the next 2 or 3 years just to discover these vines are not right for this area. That's why I was reaching out to others that have experience with this variety.

ib, our winter was mild with the coldest temps only down to about 10 F (positive) and the canes seemed to handle that ok. And I would say we had above average rainfall during the winter with it becoming excessive during the last 6 weeks or so.

To salcoco, I don't typically grow grapes that are grafted, but do grow a lot of grafted trees. Same rules applies and I always nip those root suckers as soon as I spot them.

 

[salcoco]

the vines may become more viable as the become older and build up a better reserve for the winter.

 

[Xnke]

Good to hear these are trying to come out of it. It was that late freeze that got'em, it hit me down here too. I had a lot of grafted cuttings that had survived the dog, but had fully swelled buds about to burst when that freeze hit. I wish I'd kept them now, they might have come out of it!

 

[Dennis Griffith]

They must have known my intentions as when I went out to make a selection on which one to dissect, I found the first sprout. So they saved themselves. I will continue to monitor and intend to set up the irrigation today.

 

[Obbnw]

One of my vines was really slow to start this year. Way behind all the others. In my case I think it was drowning. I've got heavy clay soil and that vine is in about the wettest spot in the yard. I was doing other work in the area and using the hose which made it worse. Once I decided the vine was drowning I pushed a rod into the ground and made holes all around it to help dry and aerate the soil. It did seem to help.

I should be able to reroute some roof drains in the area to avoid being so wet in the future.

 

[Skashoon]

Good info. I may try Cab Franc next year as well as Landot Noir. I’m on the edge of 6B/6A. Thinking of growing in air pots first year, then transplanting in-ground for 3rd leaf. Can move the pots to overwinter in the garage to allow the trunks to thicken. Perhaps planting for J method and cover with black mulch after they’re in-ground. Those late frosts in May are problematic here, too. Sprinklers ready. I’m still looking for land to expand, but nothing yet on that front.

 

[VinesnBines]

I'm in Zone 6a/6b in southern Virginia (west of the Blue Ridge) We had a hard frost on April 19, just as the bitten vines began to recover, we had another hard frost on May 6 and the killer freeze on May 10. We had temps in the mid to upper 20s for several hours May 9/10. Everything that had leafed out was killed back. I had 250 vines breaking for the second year. I have two Cab Franc, one is leafing out and the other is not. I have mostly hybrids and most are recovering but each vine is reacting differently. One vine is bouncing back without a second look and the next vine of the same variety looks dead. Fortunately only about 10 or 12 have failed to leaf out for the third time. Hopefully they will soon. Our VA Tech viticulturist suggests that we may want to treat the two year vines as new vines. I'll have to evaluate each one to see where we are in the Fall. The Great Mother's Day freeze didn't bother the new vines (thank goodness). I have an acre now and the whole thing may be on year one. The joys of farming.

 

[streamkeeper]

I‘m in the mountains of North Carolina (6a). I have about 60 Cab Franc vines in the ground, and ranging in age from 1-3 years. I don’t really know what the hell I’m doing, so you have to factor that in...
We had an early spring and then a wicked freeze the night before Mother’s Day.
I was feeling very confident in early May... not so much by the end of the month.
I have about seven vines that look like yours. I am trying to be patient because my Cab Franc vines have always been slower than my other varieties.
I’ll order replacements if I don’t see anything this week.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

I only have 3 out of 11 Cab Francs that appear to have survived. And yes, it was that killer freeze that got mine too. It got down to 22 here 2 nights in a row, so it really whacked my vines (all varieties). I'm debating keeping the Cab Francs and replacing them with Petite Pearl. These vines seem to be on the rise for growers in colder zones and are VERY resistant to disease. Cold hardy and disease resistance vines are 2 big factors for me, but do they like a little clay in their diet??

 

[VinesnBines]

I don't know much about Petite Pearl; I'm interested in how it does. I have loads of clay, red and yellow in the same field. (Different soil series run through the field).
Streamkeeper, where in the NC mountains and what else do you have?

 

[treesaver]

VnB, look into Verona. I really like that grape, but have had much misfourtion with all my grapes the last several years. It started with an aerial spraying incident, and the last two springs with way too much water, along with hard freezes at the wrong time. Sometimes makes you wonder if it is all worth it! I have lost many vines, some are coming back from the roots, and some are not. Many cordons are dead, and some look dead, and still have bare green wood. Grape production on the concordes last year was a third, and this year, it will be worse! I have two areas planted, one on the west side of the house, and one on the east. The west side was hurt the worst with the spray, but I have also lost a few vines on the east. I have three rows of frontenacs on the east, and were the only ones that ewere not bothered with all the adversity. I lost two norton vines through it all, so I guess it could be worse!

 

[Skashoon]

I don't know much about Petite Pearl; I'm interested in how it does. I have loads of clay, red and yellow in the same field. (Different soil series run through the field).
Streamkeeper, where in the NC mountains and what else do you have?

Just trialing Petite Pearl this year, no grapes for 2 more years, but we will see.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

And you have red clay. How vigorous are they? I'm thinking replacing 8 of my dead Cab Francs with them and then modifying the trellis system to support to support both the 3 VSP vines and also the 8 TWC vines. If the other Cab Francs die, then that short row will be all Petite. What vine spacing did you use? How well drained if your clay soil? I may have to enhance drainage for this row.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Here's a couple of useful links. You'll find that Petite Pearl and Verona are both from Tom Plocher.

http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/purchase-vines.html
http://www.coldclimategrapes.com/

 

[Skashoon]

I should’ve bought Verona to trial too. I’m asking some of the listed nurseries. I’m also anxious to trial Plocher’s two new numbered varieties. Those will have to wait until next season I suppose as I saw none yet offered. Presently looking for the right piece of land in S KY or TN to expand plantings. Apologies, unintentional hijacking of this thread.

 

[streamkeeper]

I don't know much about Petite Pearl; I'm interested in how it does. I have loads of clay, red and yellow in the same field. (Different soil series run through the field).
Streamkeeper, where in the NC mountains and what else do you have?

I am along the New River in Todd N.C. I am about 10 miles from Boone, which is more familiar to most people.
I am growing Chamboucin along with the Cab Franc for wine. I also grow Somerset, Catawba, and some Concords for table grapes.

 

[VinesnBines]

Ourt vineyard is about 60 miles Northeast of you. We are roughly 50 miles from Boone; 30 miles North of Bristol at Glade Spring, VA. We have one acre under vine this year. We put the first 1/4 acre in last Spring and the rest in early May. We have mostly hybrids with Chambourcin in the mix. My Cab Franc that I thought was dead has leafed out. I did lose 4 Traminette, 3 Chardonel, 1 Chancellor, and 1 Foch to the freeze. I think they had leafed out and were killed back at least three times so no buds left. All were alive and braking bud in early April. The Vidal were latest breaking bud ad just laughed at the frost and freeze. Since this is just my second leaf for the first 1/4 acre, I wasn't planning on fruit anyway.
I have several varieties that'm trialing since we only have one commercial winery in the county and one other commercial vineyard. I need to know what will grow and produce. I get a lot of criticism for such a wide range but this year's weather justified my thoughts. I'm still assessing the survival rate, bud break, frost/freeze tolerance and productivity. I'd like to get a couple more acres in over the next few years.