Bulk or bottle?
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I am guessing that the answer will be "bulk age." At least, that is my vote.
Tom
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Bulk age. I. Bulk age all my reds for at least 1 year. Whites not as long
A bit of both for sure!
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Depends on how desperate you are for the carboy.
djrockinsteve
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Dan is right. You will find yourself strategically planning out your fermentations and help those around you if a fermentation takes too long.
I prefer to age my reds a full year then bottle. My whites and fruits at least 6 months.
Now that I have a little reserve I can let my whites go a full year too unless I get anxious for them.
After bottling I like to wait at least a month before opening any.
Wine ages slower bulk aged.
I prefer to age my reds a full year then bottle. My whites and fruits at least 6 months.
Now that I have a little reserve I can let my whites go a full year too unless I get anxious for them.
After bottling I like to wait at least a month before opening any.
Wine ages slower bulk aged.
You are asking for opinions, so here's mine:
To start off, I'll say I usually bulk age well over 12 months. However, this may be changing for me.
If you want to make sure there is no sediment in your bottles, bulk age for a few extra months before bottling. This is a great reason. I would recommend doing this.
If you think you may make some adjustments during bulk aging, like added tannins, acids, Biolees, ..etc., bulk age until you are satisfied with the wine.
Long term bulk aging lets you taste your wine as it ages, so you can better determine when the wine starts coming around. Otherwise, you have to have bottled several splits or you have to be willing to pop the cork on a full bottle, which may not be ready to drink.
Other than that, there really is not much reason to bulk age. There is nothing special that happens during bulk aging that won't happen in the bottle... that is, nothing good.
I read this in another place but there is something to be considered about leaving a carboy of wine under an air lock for over about 6 months. Some do believe that much of the aroma escapes from a bulk aging wine through that air lock. I am NOW one such person.
I recently taste tested 3 of my wines, still bulk aging and each has been for about 12 to 15 months. Each has had an air lock installed the whole time. I noticed that even with a lot of swirling in the glass, there seemed to be almost no nose left at all. I do believe over a long period of time the aroma is escaping through the air lock (and around the bung).
So, if you are going to bulk age over 6 months, after 6 months consider replacing the bung/air lock combo with a solid bung.
Something else to consider, even with a solid bung - Tim Vanderbilt (Check my spelling) of WineMaking Magazine says that the bung in a carboy, even if inserted properly, leaks a lot of air over several months. I don't know how many air exchanges that really represents, but over time, apparently enough to bleed away a lot of the aroma of the wine.
As temperature and barometric pressure change, around the bung, air sneaks in and out of the carboy to compensate. Undoubtedly, some of the wine's aroma is sneaking out with it. (This is one of the few advantages of a Better Bottle over glass, the bottle can expand and contract without it becoming necessary for air to come in and out through the neck of the bottle in order to compensate for pressure changes.)
I have been writing about bulk aging in a carboy and have not considered a wine barrel. There is a whole other set of dynamics associated with bulk aging in a barrel. The barrel is very leaky, but in a good way, not to mention the oak flavor it can impart to the wine. It lets out CO2 and water; lets in micro amounts of oxygen. These are things most of us want to happen.
To wrap up my opinion, don't bulk age just to be bulk aging. If you are not going to make adjustments, leave the wine in a carboy an extra month or two to drop out any extra sediment,. and bottle 4 to 6 splits (375 ml bottles) for sampling. Other than that, if you don't have any other specific, good reason to bulk age, don't.
To start off, I'll say I usually bulk age well over 12 months. However, this may be changing for me.
If you want to make sure there is no sediment in your bottles, bulk age for a few extra months before bottling. This is a great reason. I would recommend doing this.
If you think you may make some adjustments during bulk aging, like added tannins, acids, Biolees, ..etc., bulk age until you are satisfied with the wine.
Long term bulk aging lets you taste your wine as it ages, so you can better determine when the wine starts coming around. Otherwise, you have to have bottled several splits or you have to be willing to pop the cork on a full bottle, which may not be ready to drink.
Other than that, there really is not much reason to bulk age. There is nothing special that happens during bulk aging that won't happen in the bottle... that is, nothing good.
I read this in another place but there is something to be considered about leaving a carboy of wine under an air lock for over about 6 months. Some do believe that much of the aroma escapes from a bulk aging wine through that air lock. I am NOW one such person.
I recently taste tested 3 of my wines, still bulk aging and each has been for about 12 to 15 months. Each has had an air lock installed the whole time. I noticed that even with a lot of swirling in the glass, there seemed to be almost no nose left at all. I do believe over a long period of time the aroma is escaping through the air lock (and around the bung).
So, if you are going to bulk age over 6 months, after 6 months consider replacing the bung/air lock combo with a solid bung.
Something else to consider, even with a solid bung - Tim Vanderbilt (Check my spelling) of WineMaking Magazine says that the bung in a carboy, even if inserted properly, leaks a lot of air over several months. I don't know how many air exchanges that really represents, but over time, apparently enough to bleed away a lot of the aroma of the wine.
As temperature and barometric pressure change, around the bung, air sneaks in and out of the carboy to compensate. Undoubtedly, some of the wine's aroma is sneaking out with it. (This is one of the few advantages of a Better Bottle over glass, the bottle can expand and contract without it becoming necessary for air to come in and out through the neck of the bottle in order to compensate for pressure changes.)
I have been writing about bulk aging in a carboy and have not considered a wine barrel. There is a whole other set of dynamics associated with bulk aging in a barrel. The barrel is very leaky, but in a good way, not to mention the oak flavor it can impart to the wine. It lets out CO2 and water; lets in micro amounts of oxygen. These are things most of us want to happen.
To wrap up my opinion, don't bulk age just to be bulk aging. If you are not going to make adjustments, leave the wine in a carboy an extra month or two to drop out any extra sediment,. and bottle 4 to 6 splits (375 ml bottles) for sampling. Other than that, if you don't have any other specific, good reason to bulk age, don't.
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Interesting take on that Robie. Enjoyed the read. Up until this point I haven't had the luxury of bulk aging. I now have enough carboys that I can afford to allow some to bulk age a year. My whites, I'll still likely bottle after 6 months. I have been bottling splits recently so that I can sample at various ages without opening a full bottle.
gwm72513
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I was going to ask this very question until I came upon this topic. Search wins again.
Good post, robie. I thought there might have been an upside to either method but apparently not so. I'd guess bulk aging for a couple or few months to see which way the wine wants to go, making some adjustments if needed, then bottling the wine would make some sense.
Good post, robie. I thought there might have been an upside to either method but apparently not so. I'd guess bulk aging for a couple or few months to see which way the wine wants to go, making some adjustments if needed, then bottling the wine would make some sense.
Deezil
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I cant say I'm sold, Robie.
I would agree with you that bulk aging helps with making adjustments, making sure the wine is sediment free & for the ease of sampling. And some of the things you pointed out, probably hold some weight - barometric pressure & temp changes causing some sort of air exchanges, for example. But i would really doubt that bulk aging is the reason you lost the nose to your wine.
There are variables with the airlock to be considered though, like, how often you remove the airlock/bung, how full the airlock is (the pressure needed to force air back into the carboy is greater with more liquid in the airlock), and how well the bung sealed to the carboy.
Wetting around the bung, and twisting them upon insertion has caused me to really fight to get them to come out - the moisture evaporates and the tension from the twist creates quite a seal. My oldest wine to date is only 13 months old, so im just barely getting into the age-range of wines you taste tested, yet my oldest/first wine is an overly-thinned/watered-down peach wine. But it still has its nose.
These are just my experiences thus far though - and paired along with the belief that the longer a wine bulk ages, the more opportunity there is for all the chemical compounds to combine and break apart creating a more stable & consistent wine from bottle to bottle, have led me to want to bulk age as long as possible.
Bottling too soon - around the 6 month mark - makes me wonder if some compounds have become isolated in particular bottles without the opportunity to combine & separate as needed. Not every batch or everyone's palette would pick up on it, but i would hate to bottle a wine before it finished evolving.
Just my 2 cents
I would agree with you that bulk aging helps with making adjustments, making sure the wine is sediment free & for the ease of sampling. And some of the things you pointed out, probably hold some weight - barometric pressure & temp changes causing some sort of air exchanges, for example. But i would really doubt that bulk aging is the reason you lost the nose to your wine.
There are variables with the airlock to be considered though, like, how often you remove the airlock/bung, how full the airlock is (the pressure needed to force air back into the carboy is greater with more liquid in the airlock), and how well the bung sealed to the carboy.
Wetting around the bung, and twisting them upon insertion has caused me to really fight to get them to come out - the moisture evaporates and the tension from the twist creates quite a seal. My oldest wine to date is only 13 months old, so im just barely getting into the age-range of wines you taste tested, yet my oldest/first wine is an overly-thinned/watered-down peach wine. But it still has its nose.
These are just my experiences thus far though - and paired along with the belief that the longer a wine bulk ages, the more opportunity there is for all the chemical compounds to combine and break apart creating a more stable & consistent wine from bottle to bottle, have led me to want to bulk age as long as possible.
Bottling too soon - around the 6 month mark - makes me wonder if some compounds have become isolated in particular bottles without the opportunity to combine & separate as needed. Not every batch or everyone's palette would pick up on it, but i would hate to bottle a wine before it finished evolving.
Just my 2 cents
Thanks for your response, Deezil. Your 2 cents DOES COUNT!!!
This subject has come up before on other forums. As with us, there are always varying opinions. We all have our own opinions and experiences and I'm sure that this debate will continue (I hope it does, the input is great).
You said you weren't sold. The good news is that I am not trying to sell you on anything. These are my own personal experiences, but understand that others may not agree at all. I stand by what I said... that is for now, as I am a work in progress.
Just think of what I wrote as something to consider and not an absolute "how it should be".
Others before you and me have experienced this problem and have suggested removing the air lock after several months of bulk aging. Just don't put to much hope in your bung being that well sealed. Air can always find a way. This of course would apply to both solid bungs and air locked bungs.
I don't know how much actual controlled research has been done on the subject. It would be interesting if someone had actually done some true comparison testing on side by side carboys, some with air locks and some without.
One has to consider that in large, successful wineries, reserve wines in the barrels sometimes for 4 to 5 years have bungs (solid bungs). Such barrels are opened regularly to be topped off. So, it's not just the bung that is a problem.
As I mentioned before, I never bottle anything (other than simple summer wines) before a year or more of bulk aging. However, all the subtle changes and evolution, which take place in the carboy, will also take place in the bottle, just on a much smaller scale. This is a case where size doesn't matter, although there may be some exceptions to that, but I don't know of any off hand. But just like you, I really like the flexibility of still being able to adjust my wine long after fermentation.
Besides, I hate to bottle!!! As a result, it is not likely I'll ever bottle anything but the summer wines before a year or more of bulk aging. If I run out of carboys, I'll just go by some more. (Now isn't that pathetic...)
Again, thanks for your input.
This subject has come up before on other forums. As with us, there are always varying opinions. We all have our own opinions and experiences and I'm sure that this debate will continue (I hope it does, the input is great).
You said you weren't sold. The good news is that I am not trying to sell you on anything. These are my own personal experiences, but understand that others may not agree at all. I stand by what I said... that is for now, as I am a work in progress.
Just think of what I wrote as something to consider and not an absolute "how it should be".
Others before you and me have experienced this problem and have suggested removing the air lock after several months of bulk aging. Just don't put to much hope in your bung being that well sealed. Air can always find a way. This of course would apply to both solid bungs and air locked bungs.
I don't know how much actual controlled research has been done on the subject. It would be interesting if someone had actually done some true comparison testing on side by side carboys, some with air locks and some without.
One has to consider that in large, successful wineries, reserve wines in the barrels sometimes for 4 to 5 years have bungs (solid bungs). Such barrels are opened regularly to be topped off. So, it's not just the bung that is a problem.
As I mentioned before, I never bottle anything (other than simple summer wines) before a year or more of bulk aging. However, all the subtle changes and evolution, which take place in the carboy, will also take place in the bottle, just on a much smaller scale. This is a case where size doesn't matter, although there may be some exceptions to that, but I don't know of any off hand. But just like you, I really like the flexibility of still being able to adjust my wine long after fermentation.
Besides, I hate to bottle!!! As a result, it is not likely I'll ever bottle anything but the summer wines before a year or more of bulk aging. If I run out of carboys, I'll just go by some more. (Now isn't that pathetic...)
Again, thanks for your input.
