Mosti Mondiale All juice sangiovese

[patc]

Hi all,


Just thought i would pass along some tasting notes; this wine is approx 14 months old in the bottle, i also bulk aged it for approx 7 months in addition to bottle aging and of course i deviated from the norm by first adding 1 1/2 ounce of hungarian cubes for ten weeksin addition to the oak it came with i then added 1/4 teaspoon grand cru tannin which i also added to a montepulciano that i did at the same timeand i can truly tell you that they do not taste the same at 1/4 teaspoon level. This wine is pretty good at this point in fact it tatse like a commercial wine to me but not as good as a 20.00 dollar bottle but more in ther range of a 10.00 to 12.00 dollar bottle if i had to put it in honestperspective but i expect that this wine is just starting to hit it's stride and in another 6 months to a year i thinbk it will really shine BTW the montepulciano in my opinion is as good if not slightly better than this at this point but these all juices cleaqrly will take the full run to really be good so patience is definatlely a must but well rewarding. The only thing i would fo defferently is the starting SG was 1.087 and with what i know now i would have chapatalized it to at least 1.095 to get from 12.5 to 13.5 percent alcohol i also would probably use a different yeast as well. Sounds like i need to make this again to compare

 

[ibglowin]

I made this guy as well. Very disappointed. Made it by the book and will not be making this guy again.

First and only AJ that has been a complete disappointment.....

 

[patc]

Soo sorry for your experience are you sure this did not shut down on you?as wines will do that from time to time as a matter of fact 3 months ago this was a completely different wine. The other thing is the tanin does make a difference IMO. In fact mosti's website actually endorses it. I'm not sure if that makes allthe difference but it helps an awful lot as well as the oak cubes. Hopefully as long as there wasn't any bacterial issue or some other fermenting issue you may not be aware of (and please know i am not questioning your skill just trying to figure out why)

Then again if we were wine tasting together you might think a wine i liked did not taste very well and vice versa well anyway i sure hope it's just sleeping and wakes up soon.

 

[ibglowin]

I hope it's just shut down but I have had several recently as well as an outside tester give similar tasting results. It's about 20 months old now. It tasted pretty good at bottling but now, it not even good with pizza. This was topped off with $15 a bottle Sangiovese as well so I had high hopes needless to say. Even George hesitated when I ordered this guy.

Again YMMV as they say but this was a bust for me and I really hesitate to say that but I want to be truthful.

 

[patc]

Agreed, That's the whole reason why i post it's really the only way people new to this hobby get some sort of unbiased opinion to help them. Well i sure hope my wine does not end up like yours

that would definately not be good. Well i know this could happen to anyone but hopefully this is the only one for you. I will report back again in about 6 months or so on this one hopefuylly my report will be as good if not better, if not then i will surely side with you on this one mike!

 

[v1rotate]

I hope it's just shut down but I have had several recently as well as an outside tester give similar tasting results. It's about 20 months old now.

I could have sworn I read on this forum that MMAJ's need a full 24 months to mature, Mike! How about an update next Fall?

 

[Bartman]

If Mike's Sangiovese seems to be declining now, I'd be surprised if it suddenly started improving after this many months. But surprises are good, right?

In contrast to Mike, I made the AJ Sangiovese in May '09, bulk aged for ~6 months and bottled it in Nov. '09. Just had a bottle with the local winemaking group (George was there, but I don't think he tasted it) - Pretty good, but not great - not outstanding in any particular respect but solidly good for Italian food. Pretty smooth, decent body for not adding anything or tweaking the kit at all. Still appreciably better than the Vinifera Noble Sangiovese I made at the same time.

I could always hope for better, butI am satisfied with it as a kit. Definitely not a bust, but I think I like a Chianti-style blend of Sangiovese with other varietal a little better than straight Sangiovese. But that's not to knock the AJ Sangiovese, just a personal preference.

Bottom line - I don't think it was a total bust at all, after 22 months, but I have a few wines I have enjoyed a little more. Probably won't make it again within the next 1-2 years, but certainly might try it later on.

 

[patc]

Hey Bart,


Thanks for the info, also i think i read somewhere that you made the cru select brunello, if so how does it compare? I think that's that's the only other alternative sangiovese is that correct?

 

[ibglowin]

Just a FYI, my AJ Sangiovese tasted awesome at bottling.Now, not so much. I hope yours turns out much better. Sangiovese is my favorite Italian varietal.

The only thing I know that went wrong was it was over sulfited as I blindly added sulfite every 90 days like others had said was the right thing to do.

I now know this is WAY too much Sulfite.

 

[v1rotate]

Just a FYI, my AJ Sangiovese tasted awesome at bottling.Now, not so much. I hope yours turns out much better. Sangiovese is my favorite Italian varietal.



The only thing I know that went wrong was it was over sulfited as I blindly added sulfite every 90 days like others had said was the right thing to do.



I now know this is WAY too much Sulfite.

I think the 90 day dosing is if you rack every 90 days, Mike. Anyway, I'm surprised the high sulfite level didn't cause the wine to taste bad at bottling. If you didn't notice it then, why would it ruin the flavor now? Maybe it has just gone stupid for a couple of months. I hope so.

I overdosed a MMAJ Barolo a couple of days ago. It is still in the barrel, so I am considering racking to a bucket, splash racking to a carboy, then racking back into the barrel to try to reduce the free SO2. What do you think? SO2 is presently about 80ppm. <sigh>

 

[ibglowin]

It had been open to the air for an hour to filter with a vinbrite, then more air as I bottled so by the time I got to try that left over glass it was pretty aired out. Now upon opening you just get a big blast of Sulfite and eventually goes away with enough time and air but it still is just "OK". Not much bouquet.

I made a Valipolcella as well as a Nero D Avola and they are bottled and aging. Those will be my new "pizza wines" next year. I will also make more Super Tuscan stuff down the road which has Sangiovese as a blending wine as well as Merlot and Cab Sauv.

 

[ibglowin]

Yikes! Yea thats like at least double, perhaps triple depending on your pH. I would splash rack for sure. How long will it be in the barrel? That should help it as well.

Are you testing your levels?

It is still in the barrel, so I am considering racking to a bucket, splash racking to a carboy, then racking back into the barrel to try to reduce the free SO2. What do you think? SO2 is presently about 80ppm. <sigh>

 

[v1rotate]

Yikes! Yea thats like at least double, perhaps triple depending on your pH. I would splash rack for sure. How long will it be in the barrel? That should help it as well.



Are you testing your levels?

The reason I was testing sulfite levels (A/O kit from MoreWine) is that I plan to bottle the Barolo in a week or 2, unfortunately. That barrel has only been used to ferment a fresh juice Chard for 3 weeks, then the Barolo, so a month is all I can leave it in for. When I tested the 2 barrels for SO2 levels a week ago they both tested 0ppm. It was a mysterious bad reading, but I didn't catch it until I added unneeded KM. Same thing happened yesterday when the Barolo AGAIN tested at 0ppm, but I did a sniff check of a sample and could smell the sulfite. So I retested and got 80ppm.

Anyway, aside from a subtle off flavor of sulfite, the Barolo is very promising for being 4 months old. I'll do a couple of splash racks today and see if that helps.

 

[ibglowin]

How do you get "0" ppm followed by 80ppm!

What did you do wrong on the initial analysis?

 

[v1rotate]

It's a head scratcher, for sure. I used the same indicator solution after the bad reading and it worked normally. Somehow the acid didn't drive off any free SO2 in the first test. Now I know if I get a zero reading (no change in color of the indicator solution at all) I need to repeat the test.

 

[ibglowin]

Any possibility you added a wrong solution somehow? Say Peroxide where you should have used the Phosphoric?

I accidentally hooked up my hoses (on my A/O rig) bass ackwards one time. That's one of those mistakes you only make once, kinda like leaving the Primary valve in the open position as you pour in the juice..........

 

[v1rotate]

Yeah, I've already made the Phosphoric/Peroxide mistake once. But the indicator solution acted normally on subsequent tests. Maybe I didn't put the acid into the wine sample, but that seems far fetched. I could see doing that once, but not twice on different days.

I'm not much of a scientist, so I'm sure I screwed something up...

 

[Rocky]

Hey Bart,


Thanks for the info, also i think i read somewhere that you made the cru select brunello, if so how does it compare? I think that's that's the only other alternative sangiovese is that correct?

I was reading this post and these words threw me. I looked on George's on line catalog and, sure enough, there were two "Brunello" kits! The reason that this surprises me is it is my understanding that "Brunello" is a designation for very special Sangiovese grape winethat goes through a very specific process and aging regimen. I don't see how juice or cconcentrate can be designated "Brunello" before it is wine. Seems to me the appellation would be a tad premature.

 

[wjdonahue]

Mike


Had the same problem with a Nebiolo a few years back made from grapes. Had a brain fart and increased SO2 to about 75. You could smell it when you removed the bung from the keg. I splash racked it, then returned it to the keg. Still could smell it after bottling 6 mo later (used an old toasted barrel).
Went ahead and bottled it anyway (couldn't let the grapes go to waste.) Opened a bottle every 6 months for a couple of years, and could still taste the SO2. Then I forgot about it and just let it sit in the back of the cellar. Two years ago I opened a bottle (it was bottled in 2000) and my eyes popped out, it was WONDERFUL. It even won best of class in the KC Cellarmasters Classic in 2009. Remember, Free SO2 becomes bound SO2 with time. For this wine, time healed a broken heart. I know it is not what any of us want to do (we all want to drink it a soon as we can). Maybe just the tincture of time will be enough after it is splash racked. Good Luck.

 

[v1rotate]

Uh, it wasn't Mike who screwed up this batch.