Advice on First Frozen Must

[joshjacobsen]

Hi,

I've made only kit wines to-date and am embarking on my first frozen must batch (a drum, so a much larger quantity than I'm accustomed to dealing w/ at once).

Wondering if anyone has any tips or 'watch outs' that I should be aware of? Below is some basic information:

-Location: Garage (65-70 degrees F)
-Fermenter: Stainless Steel tank
-Varietal: Pinot Noir
-Yeast: RC212
-Punch-down: 2x daily (morning/early evening, can't manage more as I'll be at working during the day)
-Press: Bladder press
-Malolactic bacteria: TBD (open to suggestions). Planning to inoculate at 0 Brix

I'll be testing/adjusting SO2/PH/TA at multiple intervals of course, though I'm still in the process of learning how to use the Vinmetrica SC-300 I've purchased so hopefully that won't be as complicated as it initially seems.

TBD on whether or not I bulk age in the stainless steal tank vs. an Oak barrel but I'll probably go w/ the former (given my lack of experience w/ the latter) and just add Oak staves (open to suggestions here as well). Anyhow, I know this is a broad invite for guidance so thanks in advance for any recommendations.

 

[mainshipfred]

Just curious, how large is the drum?
From what I've read on the forum most do not oak the Pino
Are there grape skins in the drum? If it's just juice no punch down is necessary, just stirring.
Word of advice on the Vinmetrica. Don't make the mistake I did. Be very careful not to use the same bulb in the acid and reactant solutions. It will ruin them. Plus it's not as complicated as it seems.

 

[Johnd]

Sounds like you’re on a good course, make sure to feed your RC212 well, it can be needy in a low YAN must. Not too familiar with your MLB, coinoculation of VP41 is my choice these days. Should get somewhere around 35 gallons, a good haul!

 

[Stressbaby]

TBD = to be determined
He's asking for suggestions on MLB

I've done a limited number of MLFs so far, but from what I've read on MLB on various forums: VP41, VP31, Enoferm Alpha, and Enoferm Beta are among the best. CH16 will work, just slower. Stay away from White Labs products they have a tendency to not finish. I used VP41 this year.

Edited to say, use some Opti-Malo and consider Acti-ML. Finally, many experienced winemakers also make ML starters, consider that. You have to begin the ML starter well ahead of inoculation (like a week?) so if going that route, prepare ahead of time.

 

[Johnd]

TBD = to be determined
He's asking for suggestions on MLB

Oh my, I’m really off my game on that one! Unwittingly, however, offered a suggestion....

 

[heatherd]

Hi,

I've made only kit wines to-date and am embarking on my first frozen must batch (a drum, so a much larger quantity than I'm accustomed to dealing w/ at once).

Wondering if anyone has any tips or 'watch outs' that I should be aware of? Below is some basic information:

-Location: Garage (65-70 degrees F)
-Fermenter: Stainless Steel tank
-Varietal: Pinot Noir
-Yeast: RC212
-Punch-down: 2x daily (morning/early evening, can't manage more as I'll be at working during the day)
-Press: Bladder press
-Malolactic bacteria: TBD (open to suggestions). Planning to inoculate at 0 Brix

I'll be testing/adjusting SO2/PH/TA at multiple intervals of course, though I'm still in the process of learning how to use the Vinmetrica SC-300 I've purchased so hopefully that won't be as complicated as it initially seems.

TBD on whether or not I bulk age in the stainless steal tank vs. an Oak barrel but I'll probably go w/ the former (given my lack of experience w/ the latter) and just add Oak staves (open to suggestions here as well). Anyhow, I know this is a broad invite for guidance so thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Jumping from kits to must is not too difficult. The key differences for me were:
-Needing to have chemicals on hand in bulk, like kmeta
-Doing MLF
-Not using all the various chemicals that typically come with kits - like I don't use potassium sorbate unless it's a sweet wine, and I generally don't use chemicals to clear wine (unless it's a problem batch time will clear it)
-I let the processes take as long as they need rather than trying to force the wine to meet the kit schedule; like bulk-aging 6-12 months

I'd take a look at these resources:
https://harfordvineyard.com/winemaking-instructions-grape/
https://morewinemaking.com/products/morewines-guide-red-winemaking.html
MoreWine now sells their wine making guide for $17.99 and it's totally worth it.

VP41 is the MLB I like to use. It's been reliable for me to date, and I've been co-inoculating with the yeast for most batches.

I think your thought of aging in stainless seems logical, since pinot noir is a fairly light and fruity wine style. For any varietal that is bolder, I'd go with the barrel - depends on whether your barrel is new or old though. If old, you can use it without imparting too much oak to the wine.

 

[joshjacobsen]

Thanks @heatherd! Great advice on the MoreWinemaking guides, I've actually already read the one you referenced and downloaded several others.

Keeping chemicals on hand in bulk will be new to me, though I was only planning on having sanitizer, S02, Malo, Tartaric Acid...is there anything else that's critical? I know there are several other options but I'd planned on foregoing fining/filtering and wanted to keep the process simple.

Appreciate all your help!

 

[ceeaton]

Thanks @heatherd! Great advice on the MoreWinemaking guides, I've actually already read the one you referenced and downloaded several others.

Keeping chemicals on hand in bulk will be new to me, though I was only planning on having sanitizer, S02, Malo, Tartaric Acid...is there anything else that's critical? I know there are several other options but I'd planned on foregoing fining/filtering and wanted to keep the process simple.

Appreciate all your help!

Like @Johnd said, food for your RC-212 yeast and MLB. If you don't use any for the yeast, you might have hydrogen sulfide issues. I'd use Go-Ferm when you hydrate your yeast (helps the yeast weather the increasingly hostile environment as the ferment progresses). Use either Fermaid K or O during the ferment ("O" is better if you have to feed towards the end of the fermentation, as yeast can't use the Diamonium Phosphate that is in "K" once the alcohol levels get too high). I've had success using 1/2 of the nutrients (Fermaid O) once signs of fermentation show up (a cap starts forming in you must) and the other half before 1/2 of the sugar in the must is gone (usually around 1.050 SG or earlier). I use Acti-ML to hydrate the MLB, but have never needed to add nutrients for the MLB after that.

 

[joshjacobsen]

Hi all - somehow only saw HeatherD's comment when I first responded, really appreciate everyone's input.

@mainshipfred - I believe the drum is 55 gallons but not exactly sure as I haven't yet picked it up, I'm told it'll yield 30-33 gallons after pressing. And yes, it includes the grape skins. Appreciate the tip regarding Vinmetrica, hoping you're correct about it not being as complicated as it seems .

@Johnd - thanks for the tip regarding feeding the RC212, are you referring only to a yeast start or to adding nutrients as well? I'll take a look at VP41 for MLB as it seems others are recommending it as well.

@Stressbaby - all great tips, thank you! Hadn't read much regarding ML starters so I'll look into it.

@ceeaton - Wasn't familiar w/ 'Fermaid O' so I'll look into that as well.

Thanks again!

 

[Stressbaby]

On the VP41, the smallest pack will dose 66 gallons, but just use it all.

 

[Johnd]

@joshjacobsen , I was referring to feeding the yeast during fermentation. Always fine to use a starter, but feeding through fermentation will help prevent H2S problems and get your yeast to the finish line healthy and happy.

 

[joshjacobsen]

Hi all,

Do any of you have an estimate of how long the drums usually take to thaw? I've read 2-4 days but haven't opened the container yet (it's been 1.5 days) as I'm worried about unnecessarily exposing it to oxygen.

Also, how soon do you add your first S02 dosage? My assumption is that the entire contents of the drum will need to be unthawed but let me know if that isn't accurate.

Thanks!