Advice for newbie? 1st kit ever.....

[Comet in TX]

I've been lurking on these boards ever since I found George's site, and there's obviously the fount of all wine-making knowledge to be found here. Am I the only one who feels like they know George even though they've never met him? Don't you just love the feeling you get when you find a business that you WANT to support..............

I got my stuff on Friday (only 4 kits, 5 carboys, like I told George, in for a penny, in for a pound) and I have the WE Selection International Australian GSM in the primary fermenter for the last hour or so.

What advice can you experts give me on making this the best wine possible? I've followed the kit verbatim so far. I'm thinking timing (the 5/20/50/90 timing?), oaking, whatever else there might be without getting too crazy (I'm a newbie, remember). I really want this wine to be great, as I've got one extremely skeptical husband and 2 kids watching my every move (actually I think my husband is really hoping I've found the answer to our wine budget, which he doesn't actually know, but fearfully suspects.....)

Many thanks, looking forward to being able to contribute BACK someday,
Lara
Austin

 

[Waldo]

Welcome lara. Best advice is
Patience, Patience, Patience

 

[vcasey]

The best advice I can offer you is just be patient. The wine will improve over time so make sure you put some away because when you open a bottle in a couple of years you are going to wonder why you did not save more. Make sure you take a look at the limited edition kits, lots of great choices and just as easy to make as the one you just mixed.
Welcome to the forum!
VC

 

[Goodfella]

Hello Lara,


I agree with Waldo. Also, you will taste your wines as you go.... Don't get discouraged by the taste early on. They will smooth out and become delicious.


Ohhh yeah..... CLEAN AND SANITIZE!!!! A spray bottle will solution is worth its weight in gold.

 

[pelican]

Hi Lara,

Nice to have another gal with the husband as onlooker --

-- first kit, my advice would be "follow the directions" (although extending timings doesn't hurt once it's in the secondary... benign neglect can be highly beneficial compared to hovering and fiddling).

If you want to convince him of the answer to the winemaking budget, then also do at least one quick-maturing wine in a style or variety that you'll both enjoy. (not necessarily recommending the mist kits - which I've never done and haven't tasted but I don't generally like 'sweet' wines, other than the chocolate whatsit ports!)

High end kits do take some time in the bottle to come into the fullness of their potential and having many cases of wine aging and nothing to drink can be frustrating (especially if there is a skeptic in the mix).

What other kits did you get?

Mrs. Pelican (aka Susan)

 

[Fly*guy]

Hi Lara, Welcome
Listen to these folks they may not call themwelves experts but they really are modest!
They have offered help to me an uncountable # of times and are on usually on the money. They have seen a lot and are willing to give a lot, which makes people like you and me look very good to our friends and relatives a lot.
I have limited knowledge but I am willing to give you what I know as well.
The more you use the site and the more you wine make, the better and more knowledgeable you will get.

GOOD LUCK

 

[Wade E]

Only 4 kits and 5 carboys for a person who isnt even addicted yet!!!!!

Me Likes The Way You Start Off! Just what ever you do dont judge these wines for at least 8 months, at least! The bigger kits like you bought are good but require time to get there. Some may be good when done while others really can taste nasty, really! Just remember that. Dont go by anyones timing on oaking as its a very personal matter and everyone has their own taste which you and your husband must make a comprimise on and meet in the middle. Glad to have you aboard.

 

[Joanie]

Welcome, Lara!

Congratulations on joining the forum, knowing George, and the great investment you've just made. Some people call it patience, I like to think of it as procrastination. I've turned it into an art form!

Also don't worry about your husband's skepticism. Instead think about how much fun it will be to gloat when you produce some great wines!

 

[Goodfella]

P.S. you will never wonder what to get people for christmas ever again!!!

 

[hannabarn]

Welcome, Lara. I guess you know by now that patience is a virtue! It is also the hardest thing to achive in wine making. Good luck and keep in touch with this forum and you will soon have your husband cheer leading!!!

 

[Joanie]

Absolutely, Goodfella! It impresses them big time!

 

[Comet in TX]

Oh, see I just knew there would be a bunch of responses. To all: I am planning on being patient, I think I can do that (made easier by the fact that) I have a cellar full of commercial wine that needs to be drunk before there's room for mine. Actually, I'm planning on renting temp controlled storage, I live in Texas, there's no such thing as a garage or basement, AND if it's not here, I can't drink it!

So, just take my time is it? Will the fining agents and sorbate really negatively affect the wine if I want it for long term? There were 4 packages of oak, would I really want any more?

Another girl (hooray!) asked what other kits I bought - I got the WE Selection International GSM, the MM all-juice Pinot Noir, the CC Showcase Yakima Valley Pinot Grigio, and the WE Selection Speciale Riesling Ice Wine (I'm a pretty accomplished chef, and that lesson is easily learned, ingredient quality is everything).

After that, I want to make a White Merlot (1/2 for my mother in law, who says merLOT, and 1/2 to make a rose sparkling for me). Oh, and all those LE kits are talking to me.....

 

[Wade E]

Those ingredients wont negatively effect your wine but if youve got patience then some of them arent needed. Sorbate will not hurt in your wine in anyway and besides helping your wine from not refermenting it also has antimicrobial effects to it which is good for storage. I dont think yooll need any more oak then 4 packets but you never know. Give them time as instructed and then taste and if you feel you need more then do so with cubes or spirals while bulk aging so that it doesnt mess up your wine again like the dust or chips can with all the sediment. Spirals or even staves can be just yanked out when you feel your at the proper point instead of having to rack off it all and it clogging your cane od spout.

 

[admiral]

Welcome aboard, Comet! Looks as though you are out of the starting gate in fine fashion. I am looking forward to your status updates.


This is such a great obsession. It makes a virtue out of one of my greatest flaws... procrastination. Now, when I put things off, I refer to it as "patience in action."








As to adjusting the flavor profile using oak or other additives, I have found that I first want to make wines according to the kit's instructions so that I can understand what the kit will produce on it's own. After that, I have begun to adjust, based on my taste and the kit's potential. I hope that makes sense.


Have a wonderful time with this magnificent obsession.

 

[RickC]

Comet, welcome to the forum. One additional thing to add is make sure you degas well. You've probably already seen the discussion threads about this but in my opinion, it will improve the flavor tremendously. Good luck.

 

[xanxer82]

Welcome!
I just started my first batch too. Good luck. Be sure to sanitize everything. Best advice I have, besides asking questions. These guys know what they are talking about here.

 

[Dean]

Welcome. Everyone gave the best advice already! Patience and Sanitation are the 2 areas you have to be concerned about. Other than that, winemaking is the procrastinators sport of choice! You can always put off doing something for another day or two with no worries.

When you first start out, read everything carefully. You'll probably have questions, but hold them and read it again. Next, read it again. Now form your question and ask us. We'd be happy to help.

Don't fuss. Beginning winemakers fuss and fuss some more! They are excited! How could you not be? You are making something that is your own and it will be awesome! However, in the beginning, just follow the instructions. Wait until you have 5 to 10 kits under your belt before you start to "customize" and deviate from instructions. I'd even suggest waiting for some of that wine to age, so that you can see what it is supposed to be like. Then make changes and see how it turns out again. Kits are very consistent in taste, so changes you make can usually be detected, both positive and negative, but it can take a year or two for those changes to become noticeable. Keep copious notes! Seriously. Start 2 diaries now. One for making wine, and another for tasting wine. Use them! Always write down in them whenever you touch your wine, or taste a new wine, or re-visit a wine. This will help to expand your palate and show you how a wine ages, as well as allow you to remember just what you did to make the wine taste that way.

Quality of wine starts with quality of juice/concentrate. A kit with 6L of concentrate still makes 23L of wine, but a kit with 18L of concentrate and juice will make a higher quality wine. You get what you pay for. Cheaper kits = thinner wine, but requires less aging to hit their top potential.

Kits that have 23L of volume are kits that have been reconstituted for you! They do not always = higher quality. If a kit is pure juice, it will arrive in a bucket FROZEN to keep it from fermenting. Concentrate is used to preserve kits and keep them shelf stable.

Finally...have fun. This is a fun hobby, and that's why we are so passionate about it.

 

[Runningwolf]

Welcome aboard Lara. I started off in September of 08 and have made over 20 kits myself already. You not only will have gifts to give but you're getting in to the hobby just in time to start you're list for Santa Like a Port. floor corker.

 

[PeterZ]

Dean, I thought the 23 L kits were pasteurized juice, and not concentrated, and the frozen musts were unpasteurized juice.

 

[Dean]

Peter, sadly, that's what the marketers want you to think, but it's just not the case. If you were going to buy Lodi Gold, California Special, or Lucerne, then yes, you are getting 19L of pure pressed juice. However, those are just juice and are not really balanced for acid, nutrient, or anything else.

Kits on the other hand require concentrate to keep them shelf stable, and *all* 23L kits in pails and sometimes boxes are reconstituted concentrate kits with the water added for you. Like all other kits, they vary in quality. RJS has a line called Bolero that is 23L, but in reality it is a 10 - 12L kit with water added. Their Premiere Cru line is a 16L kit with water added. Advintage has French Connection and Europa that are about 12L kits with water added.

I'm not sure about Mosti, but due to the quality you get from Alljuice, I'd guess that those are 15L kits with water added, while Masters Edition is a 16L kit, and Meglioli would be an 18L kit with water added. However Mosti is the most guarded with regards to their methods.

When the kit makers add the water, it's not a bad thing. You get precisely the correct hydration amount. They are just a little more expensive to ship. Also, if your water quality is suspect, this is a better method to eliminate any off-tastes you can get with your water.

In the end, it is just good marketing that tries to make us think we are getting pressed juice only.