Other DIY Grape Pack

Can supermarket grapes be added to improve a kit?

from this thread, I get the impression that using raisins would be better

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17826

Joeswines uses alot of table grapes to make a f-pack - see this thread -
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9155&page=46

he uses red and white grapes -

I dont think table grapes will hurt anything, but they have low acid and high sugars so they taste good. Wine grapes dont taste like the wine they make.

What is the process to creating a grape pack? I believe I've read some posts about people storing them for some time, do you need to treat with, kmeta or something else, or just throw in the freezer? I've have seen and have been searching other posts trying to find something about using specific varietal grapes in the same or similar varietal kits. I have a, CC Walla Walla Cab/Merlot kit and I wanted to add some additional grapes during fermentation, then reuse those grapes in a, WE Triumph kit fermentation. Any suggestions would be helpful.

PS. I did click on the link recommendations above and reviewing them now. Also this link below, but no specifics re: the grape pack process. Thanks!

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51079&highlight=grape+skins+added

DoctorCAD said:

I dont think table grapes will hurt anything, but they have low acid and high sugars so they taste good. Wine grapes dont taste like the wine they make.

Click to expand...

Has anyone tried adding table grapes and how did turn out?
I think I will try an experiment as follows:
Crush, press and freeze, possibly throw away the juice to avoid affecting the ki varietal;
Thaw and add to must in a muslin bag;
If neccessary, adjust acidity and sugars.

I am assuming that the extra dissolved solids will contribute to the body and mouthfeel.

Tetrarch said:

Has anyone tried adding table grapes and how did turn out?
I think I will try an experiment as follows:
Crush, press and freeze, possibly throw away the juice to avoid affecting the ki varietal;
Thaw and add to must in a muslin bag;
If neccessary, adjust acidity and sugars.

I am assuming that the extra dissolved solids will contribute to the body and mouthfeel.

Click to expand...

I would try to toss as much juice as possible as it will change your wine. You want the skins for tannin.

Joe made a whole thread on this subject -

How to make a Fpac

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44497

Typically an F-pac is used to add both sweetness AND flavor. While supermarket grapes can provide some sugars, they definitely do not possess any distinguishable flavor so their contribution to a wine would be minimal. Using specific fruits, ie. grapes/raisins, cherries, blue-black-straw berries etc., that will compliment/supplement the flavors in your wine are your best bet.

Fpacs

The above statement is correct as long you also state that the grape will also impart some texture and structure to the wines base and you can see that in action in the primary fermentation and taste in the secondary .this is a good tweak for most of My white wines.

Hey Joe,

I see the, grapes in a non-stick frying pan. What's the idea behind cooking them? Are you reducing the juice to concentrate the sugar in the grapes? I can't tell, but it looks as if there is juice in the final pack, so are you pouring the juice and along with the grapes into the pack or reducing to a certain point. I've been trying to go through your post to find more specific suggestions on grapes in, kits. Any suggestions on where to look? Thanks!

Kevin

Making a FPAC

THE reason behind the sautéing is to start to extract the sugar in the grape and enzymes. Once the cooking is completed and it doesn't take long (remember to add some wine to the pan) once it's cool you can add it straight to the mix or freeze it for later in a air tight pouch.
You can use any grapes you want you don't have to be user specific ( it does help), I use Thompson white seedless all the time for my whites and what ever I can find of interest like CORTHIAN GRAPES or what local to you. Always think outside the box all the pro's do so can we.

Hey Joe,

Thanks for the tip! I have a, WE Triumph kit I was going to split in, two, three gallon batches. I have a lug of cab grapes and was going to add them to both batches, since the kit did not have a grape pack. I made another one of these kits in bulk aging now, and it's pretty thin and light. I was reading in one of your other post about lower priced kits: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51251&highlight=Adding+grapes+wine+kits&page=3. and reducing a, gallon of water to work with, five gallons instead of six.

Wanted to ask, instead of adding the, 1.25 gallons with the required water, what about replacing it with the juice from the, cab grapes? I have a super juicer, that will turn the grapes almost into a dry powder that how well it juices. Does anyone know if that would seriously affect the balance of the kit and throw off chemicals that come with the kit?

Also, Joe any suggestion on the amount of time to sautéing the grapes? I was thinking of adding some juice (not wine) from juiced cab grapes for the sauté? Thanks for all of your help!

In the mix

on the cheap kits what was done was instead of starting out at the 6 gallon volume we started out at a 5 gallon volume not adding any water ,(no need).then we did our tweaks. so are you telling me your going to take a 6 gallon kit and make 2 /3 gallon batches?
whats the point if your going to do the same work on the both of them or did I read it incorrectly?

sautéing just to the point of them becoming better then soft without over cooking, and as long as you don't burn them and let them cool you'll be just fine.

So my plan is to, split the, 6 gallon kit. Do one, 3 gallon batch with, Wyeast 4028 and use some, American oak Wine Stix broken down into a meritage type blend of, light, medium, medium plus, and heavy toast. For the second batch, I was going to use, Wyeast 4267 and a Bordeaux blend of, Wine Stix's. After reading through some of your posts, I was even thinking about adding some, cherries and raspberries, but the only ones, I have are frozen and organic, so not additives. Would that work?

When I sauté the grapes, I was thinking of pouring in juice from some of the grapes I juiced from the same lug. I was thinking of doing your process with the sautéed version in one, 3 gallon batch and putting in about, 2 litter or so of lightly press grapes in the other batch and do a punch down a couple of times a day. Thanks for you suggestions!

OKAY, so let me put this out there. FIRST, I would use BM45..BIG MOUTHFEEL for both ,VERY NICE FOR THIS STYLE RED.
SECOND, only concentrate on heavy toasted oak ,not volume but TASTE and allow the yeast to carry the tannins, speaking of wine tannins, use wine tannins in the secondary to build the structure of the wine .
THIRD, make sure your sg. is at least 1.09 to 1.10 this will insure you have a wine chartists when your done tweaking and (it will not be hot).

AND finally,in one of the splits I would add 4 ripe fresh plums the partnership is wonderful for the taste and balance.

Hey Joe, Thanks for the suggestions!
I didn't have any, BM45 and I was going to be traveling in and out of town with work throughout the week so I needed to get these started. I did use, BM45 in another split batch of, WE Triumph. Unfortunately, I didn't use any tweaks on that kit with fruit, but I did start off with some, FT Rouge tannin, and added tannin complex on the first rack. With this kit and your suggestions, I racked the first batch a few days ago and just got back today and racked the second. I did run up to the store and grab the last, two plums they had, chopped into chunks and added to both vats, along with about, 24 OZ of fresh squeezed juice, pressed skins, along with some thawed frozen cherries and raspberries. Instead of topping up to the, 6 gallon mark with water, I used the must from the squeezed grapes to top up. The last, two, Triumph kits I did, I split those into two, 3 gallon batches, too. I used, BDX, BM45, MT, and BDX on those batches. Those, four separate batches coming out of primary didn't come close to the these most recent, two. I can tell you both of those batches smelled amazing! The aroma along with the smell of alcohol and spent fermented grapes knocked me back when I opened the lid. It was powerful! I never experienced that with any kit with skins. I started with adding, Lallzyme EX-V and Opti-Red. When I racked, I had a ton of sediment that came over into the secondary carboy, was thinking about, racking again? Wasn't sure if all of that sediment wouldn't cause a problem with creating any bad flavors down the road? I was getting a hint of eggy/sulfur smell in the primary, but when racked, was getting the opposite. In the secondary, I am getting a little of that smell, but think it's more of the, CO2 burn off. I was going to start another, CC Walla Walla Cab/Merlot, tomorrow along with pressing some cab and merlot skins, cherries and raspberries. I was planning on sautéing the thawed cherries and raspberries, and plums to concentrate the sugars, it seems to intensify the flavors in my very new experimenting venture. Thanks again!

Lovewnemusic

JUST KEEP THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX!