WineXpert 7-21-28 versus 5-20-50-90

This is my first post and I'm sorry if this has been discussed recently or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm preparing to start my first kit from WineXpert and see their instructions call for a roughly 28 day schedule. However, some literature I've been reading recommends a schedule more like 90 days suggesting I disregard the instructions. I'm paying a lot for a kit and want to get it right. Any thoughts on which of these is correct?

TonyP

Best thing to do is follow the instructions right up to the point where it say to bottle it, at that point you should age the wine in the carboy properly topped up and sulfited for at least a few more montrhs as almost every kit will continue to drop out fine sediment for awhile despite using the fining agent.

TonyP said:

This is my first post and I'm sorry if this has been discussed recently or if I'm in the wrong area. I'm preparing to start my first kit from WineXpert and see their instructions call for a roughly 28 day schedule. However, some literature I've been reading recommends a schedule more like 90 days suggesting I disregard the instructions. I'm paying a lot for a kit and want to get it right. Any thoughts on which of these is correct?

TonyP

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You paid a lot for a 28 day kit? Wait till you get into the hobby and want to make a decent kit. I've got one to pick up that will be about $135 (maybe I'll get a discount). If you have any more questions, please be sure to be specific about the kit that you are making. It can make a difference to the answer.

Wade is correct in suggesting extra time after the stabilizing and clearing. Don't be afraid to give it a bit of extra time between putting it in carboy and doing the stabilizing/clearing.

Personally I extend all of the timings in the instructions after the wine is in a carboy.

Steve

cpfan said:

You paid a lot for a 28 day kit? Wait till you get into the hobby and want to make a decent kit. I've got one to pick up that will be about $135 (maybe I'll get a discount). If you have any more questions, please be sure to be specific about the kit that you are making. It can make a difference to the answer.

Wade is correct in suggesting extra time after the stabilizing and clearing. Don't be afraid to give it a bit of extra time between putting it in carboy and doing the stabilizing/clearing.

Personally I extend all of the timings in the instructions after the wine is in a carboy.

Steve

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Steve:

Thanks for the fast reply and advice. From your comment I had the impression spending $99 (a lot for me) for a WE Selection Luna Bianca may not be sound. I'm still researching but it seemed to me that most kits are 28 days. Are you suggesting that kits requiring over 28 days are better? I want to buy locally because the retailer has been helpful to me but he only sells WE. Are there WE whites you believe I should start with? I don't see any over 28 days.

Please note that I understand your comment on extending the process. I'm only using the 28 days at this point as a comparison based on the kit's instructions.

Tony P

That is not a bad kit but there are better and surely a LOT worse! Thats a decent mid-range you have there. Sometimes we think Vintners Reserve or there abouts and those just arent worth the box they're in a lot of times IMO. I dont really buy W.E. as its just not whats available to much anymore to me but I do like their white wine kits, not to fond of many of their reds though. If you give it another say 2 months in the carboy you should be much better off and the wine will be much more drinkable then also. The smaller kits are drinkable sooner but not ready to drink after 28 days and IMO again should never be bottled then either. The only wine kits that are drinkable in that period of time really are the lower abv sweeter Mist style kits and even those if bottled then will drop a layer of sediment in the bottles.

TonyP said:

I want to buy locally because the retailer has been helpful to me but he only sells WE. Are there WE whites you believe I should start with? I don't see any over 28 days.

Please note that I understand your comment on extending the process. I'm only using the 28 days at this point as a comparison based on the kit's instructions.

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Luna Bianca is quite good, nothing really wrong with that kit. I've had some a friend has made, I have not made it myself, but it turned out very well - nothing wrong with a hundred dollar WE kit. I've made a few. (And I have an Aussie Chardonnay from them on the go right now)

Essentially, if you more or less follow the directions, but believe your hydrometer more than the time it says to take, you'll do just fine, however I have always left my wine well topped up (that's important) to bulk age in the carboy for several months at least before bottling. Normally I do this by waiting 3-4 weeks after stabilizing for most of the sediment to drop, then rather than bottling right away, I rack the wine again, adding 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulphite, and let it sit in carboy topped up and airlocked for 3 months or more. Then I may bottle or let it sit longer... A little more time taken will make better wine..

cpfan said:

I've got one to pick up that will be about $135 (maybe I'll get a discount).

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So you got your Red Mountain Trio too?

TonyP - your question is which schedule is correct? and the answer is both! The 4 or 6 week schedule (depending on the kit) for these kits is as per the kit makers direction and can be followed, although, as mentioned, many winemakers extend the clearing period before bottling. Regarding the 5-20-40-90 schedule, this is one that has been promoted by Tim Vandergrift as a way to get more out of your kits. He also happens to be the technical guru for WinExpert and plays a big part in writing the directions for these Selection kits.
You can go either way. You should read Tim's article on this before deciding which way to go to find out why he is suggesting this extended schedule. It can be found in Winemaker magazine if you do a google search for it - the article is called Making Your Wine Kit Shine and there is a followup article Making Your Wine Kit Shine Redeaux, I believe. Unfortunately I can't post a link to these, but perhaps others can.

Try this link. http://www.winemakermag.com/component/content/article/26/850-making-your-kit-wine-shine-redeaux

Thanks to all for posting. The information has been helpful and informative.

Tony P.

TonyP said:

Steve:

Thanks for the fast reply and advice. From your comment I had the impression spending $99 (a lot for me) for a WE Selection Luna Bianca may not be sound. I'm still researching but it seemed to me that most kits are 28 days. Are you suggesting that kits requiring over 28 days are better? I want to buy locally because the retailer has been helpful to me but he only sells WE. Are there WE whites you believe I should start with? I don't see any over 28 days.

Please note that I understand your comment on extending the process. I'm only using the 28 days at this point as a comparison based on the kit's instructions.

Tony P

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if you are looking to do WE kits, i would suggest going with the Vintners Reserve line of kits, until you really get your feet wet and learn....the quality might be a little more middle of the road, but you will be saving yourself at least about $30 per kit....that way, if by chance, you happen to screw up, which really isn't that easy to do, then you won't feel as bad nor will it be as much of waste....

Here's an interesting blog on that very subject. She's taking 3 different kits and changing the schedule 3 different ways. Interesting experiment.
http://wineframes.blogspot.com/

TonyP said:

From your comment I had the impression spending $99 (a lot for me) for a WE Selection Luna Bianca may not be sound. I'm still researching but it seemed to me that most kits are 28 days. Are you suggesting that kits requiring over 28 days are better? I want to buy locally because the retailer has been helpful to me but he only sells WE. Are there WE whites you believe I should start with? I don't see any over 28 days.

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Tony:

I'm like totally confused here. As far as I know, all Selection kits are 45 day kits. Checking the Winexpert web-site, they are called 6-8 week kits. That's 42-56 days. So why do you think they are 28 day kits?

$99 for the Selection Luna Bianca is probably fine. Pricing is tough to discuss on the internet especially since you're probably in the US and I'm in Canada. [Please update the Location field of the Control Panel.]

Phat:

Yep. My Red Mountain Trio should be in store today. I'll probably pick it up Wed or Thurs.

Steve

Im not one to ever recommend a smaller kit. These kits are near impossible to screw up. I agree with with cpfan but didnt say anyhthing before about your 28 day time line on a Selection kit?

I'm in trouble if I can't even figure out which instructions to use! I will contact WinExpert today and get back to you. In the interim Ill explain what I did. I went to WinExpert's link for instructions for Selection Original and Selection International Premium kits. Those instructions say primary is 5-7 days, secondary 8-10 days, racking and clarification 14 days. To me that makes it a 28 day kit, but I'm a novice and obviously missing something. Here's the link to the instructions:

http://www.winexpert.com/images/Orig_Intl_Inst_Sept2011_Eng.pdf

Tony P

I just read the instructions from the link you provided and it says step 1 5-7 days, step 2 8-10 days , step 3 8 days and step 4 14 days, step 5 wait 3 days before laying bottles on their sides. Thats 42 days, which is 6 weeks.

Those instructions state...

Step 1 - 5-7 days in primary
Step 2 - 10 days in secondary
Step 3 - 8 days after stabilizing and clearing
Step 4 - 14 days to rack and clarify before bottling

It's 39 days, but you can extend the time in step 4 longer if you want. I bottled my Luna Bianca at 3 months.

Peace,
Bob

Edit: diggerdan17 beat me to it.

gonzo46307 said:

Those instructions state...

Step 1 - 5-7 days in primary
Step 2 - 10 days in secondary
Step 3 - 8 days after stabilizing and clearing
Step 4 - 14 days to rack and clarify before bottling

It's 39 days, but you can extend the time in step 4 longer if you want. I bottled my Luna Bianca at 3 months.

Peace,
Bob

Edit: diggerdan17 beat me to it.

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Thanks to all for the information. I obviously combined steps in my counting and understand everything much better now. Bob, one last question for you. Someone in an earlier post said he added 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulphite, and let it sit in the carboy topped up and airlocked for 3 months or more. Is that what you're talking about or did you continue to rack, too?

How did your Luna Bianca turn out? Would you suggest it for a first effort?

Tony P.

TonyP said:

I'm in trouble if I can't even figure out which instructions to use! I will contact WinExpert today and get back to you. In the interim Ill explain what I did. I went to WinExpert's link for instructions for Selection Original and Selection International Premium kits. Those instructions say primary is 5-7 days, secondary 8-10 days, racking and clarification 14 days. To me that makes it a 28 day kit, but I'm a novice and obviously missing something. Here's the link to the instructions:

http://www.winexpert.com/images/Orig_Intl_Inst_Sept2011_Eng.pdf

Tony P

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Tony, it's not about figuring out which to use as much as it is figuring out which method will give you the results you're looking for. One of the methods in the blog I mentioned is written by Tim Vadigrift (spelling) who actually works for WinExpert. The blog compared the flavor of wine made from the instructions to wine made on the 90 day schedule. The results showed the wine made on the 90 day schedule tasted better the the wine made to in accordance with the instructions. If you have the patients, I would to the extended route for sure.

TonyP said:

Thanks to all for the information. I obviously combined steps in my counting and understand everything much better now. Bob, one last question for you. Someone in an earlier post said he added 1/4 tsp of potassium metabisulphite, and let it sit in the carboy topped up and airlocked for 3 months or more. Is that what you're talking about or did you continue to rack, too?

How did your Luna Bianca turn out? Would you suggest it for a first effort?

Tony P.

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I didn't add any extra metabisulfate to this kit, I just extended step 4 a couple months. It was pretty clear after step 3, and only a bit more sediment dropped out, so I bottled (carefully) without racking again.

I made this kit specifically to give to family and friends for Christmas a couple years ago (I'm not a big white wine drinker). It turned out well, everyone said they liked it. As far as recommending it for a first kit, go for it. I usually tell people to make the kind of wine they enjoy, which, only you can answer that question. If you follow the instructions, it's really hard to mess up, and if there's any part of the instructions you don't understand, you can always ask the question here.

Peace,
Bob