Noob questions

I have a few things I'd like to know, as I fumble my way thru the thousands of threads in here trying to get a handle on what y'all are talking about. Please keep in mind, "noob." Till yesterday I didn't know what a hydrometer was, or what abv meant.

I plan on using dark brown sugar. Is that a direct conversion from white sugar, or should I consider altering my amounts? I've had mention of this making the wine unclear, but so far that's about it.

How "hot" can I make things before I run into trouble? My last batch is 2 years old, and still has a bit of a bite to it, so I don't mind a long wait, but don't want to wait and discover something went wrong.

What effect does oxygen have, and at what point do I need to be concerned? I splashed and poured thru my last batch till I was racking off lees (I've learned new words at any rate ) but tho it tastes good, it smells like something distilled.

Again, please remember that once you throw terms out like b-kappa and sulphur, I'm lost. All I've used for ingredients in the past is grapes and sugar, no yeast or Camden or any of that, this will be the first batch to even have a hydrometer used. Taking baby steps. But I do enjoy making my wine, and would like to get better. Thanks in advance.

I have never tried it, but I imagine the dark brown sugar is pretty well a direct conversion. Now you have a hydrometer, you can use it to tell how much sugar you want to add. Most of the winemaking yeasts are going to die off once you get in the neighborhood of 14 to 18% alcohol. Most wines you don't want quite that hot anyway.
On your last batch, draw a glass and add a small amount of sugar to it. Stir it up and try it. Maybe add some more til it tastes good to you. Now don't try this on the whole batch unless you stabalize it first. If you don't stabalize it, it will probably referment on you. To stabalize you add k-meta (potassium sulfite) or campden tablets and sorbate. The sulfites help preserve your wine and stun the yeasts, the sorbate keeps them from reproducing. These words are a bit confusing at first, but won't be long and you will be throwing them out there.
Basically oxygen will make your wine spoil. It has to be there for a strong ferment, sometimes you have to add it to help get rid of some bad oders. Once your wine gets in the secondary fermenter and the ferment goes way down it is time to start limiting the amount of oxygen it is exposed to. We do this by keeping the carboy topped up and racking instead of pouring.
Keep on asking questions and we will keep trying to answer them. Good luck with the wines. Arne.

OK,

I know that I may come off sounding like a jerk, but I just need to correct you, It is the Seldon Cooper in me.

1) it is APV (alcohol per volume) and not ABV.

2) It is k-meta and not b-kappa. K-meta is something that you should get to know. It is used to sterilize equipment and is also used as an additive to help protect wine. There are a whole host of other benefits, but the two I list is enough for you to get some and start using it. There are a lot of threads here that discuss K-Meta. I would suggest that you read some. It just might save your wine.



In winemaking, O2 is much like a woman. You can't live with it, and you can't live without it. Too much, and your wine is toast. Too little, and your wine will not ferment properly, taste bitter/sharp, and not release its flavors.


Let's break it down..

Benefits: It is beneficial to airrate your wine before and during the first 30% of fermentation. Yeast needs O2 to reproduce. As your yeast takes hold (the "Growth Phase") Airating (or whisking) your wine once or twice a day will aid in the yeast's growth.

As the wine ages, O2 is beneficial in very small amounts. O2 will bond with the tannins to produce a sediment that will fall out of the wine. With less tannins, a wine becomes softer and have a better mouth feel. This "micro-oxidation" is one of the main reasons (and there are other reasons) why an aged wine is preferred over a young one. It is important to note, though, that we are talking about O2 in very small amounts. If you were to rack your wine twice over a year of bulk aging in a carboy, that would probably be enough to do the job.


Harms: O2 in large amount is very bad. First, like said before, you are actually talking about air here. long term exposure can lead to oxidation and spoilage.



Summary: So the game here is to CONTROL the amount of O2 that you wine is exposed to. You do not want to expose your wine to extended amounts of O2, but you do want to bring O2 into the mix at the appropriate times and in the appropriate amounts.

JohnT said:

OK,

I know that I may come off sounding like a jerk, but I just need to correct you, It is the Seldon Cooper in me.

1) it is APV (alcohol per volume) and not ABV.

Click to expand...

Actually, it is ABV (alcohol by volume) which is a measure of mL of alcohol per 100 mL of liquid. Which is a percent.

I've never seen APV used anywhere.

Arne said:

To stabalize you add k-meta (potassium sulfite) or campden tablets and sorbate.

Click to expand...

Actually "k-meta" is not potassium sulfite (K2SO3). It is potassium metabisulfite (K2S2O5). Those are very different chemicals.

GreginND said:

Actually, it is ABV (alcohol by volume) which is a measure of mL of alcohol per 100 mL of liquid. Which is a percent.

I've never seen APV used anywhere.

Actually "k-meta" is not potassium sulfite (K2SO3). It is potassium metabisulfite (K2S2O5). Those are very different chemicals.

Click to expand...

Greg: I stand corrected on the ABV. We use this in a different industry...

I forgot the "meta". Sorry.


I guess we both come off sounding like jerks!

Ha ha, good banter here this morning.

To the OP: If you are coming from a "traditional" wine making approach, then learning the use of the hydrometer is probably one of the best things you should do first. It will tell you how much sugar you are starting out with and can show you when fermentation is complete. The starting gravity and finishing gravity can then be used to get a pretty good idea of alchohol (ABV).

As others have also mentioned, keeping oxygen away from the wine is also something you need to pay careful attention to as it will ruin your hard efforts. This is particularly important as fermentation slows down and ceases. Moving your wine to a carboy with airlock is usually recommended as you can limit the exposure to air. Addition of potassium metabisulfite (also known here as k-meta) will also protect your wine as it will bind with free oxygen thus removing it from harms way.

Just keep reading and asking questions like you are and before long it will click and become old hat. Enjoy!

Be aware that brown sugar will give a carmel flavor. Something that is not ideal for many wines but may enhance SOME wines.

We typically shoot for an ABV of 12.5% This is a good percent of alcohol for preservation but doesn't taste hot. You want to be able to drink more than one glass without getting drunk so fast. I don't favor high alcohol wines. They are just hot and unpleasant to drink. If I want something hot, I'll drink Dramboughi(sp?.)

Splash racking when going from the primary to the secondary is OK because you're driving off the CO2 produced by the yeast and you no longer need the protection of it because you're in a carboy with an airlock. But rackings after that shouldn't be splash racked because of the introduction of O2 which can only help to oxidize the wine. Oxygen is your friend during the ferment. But after that, it can lead to oxidation.

Be aware of using the proper amount of meta(potassium metabisulfite) in your wines in the secondary and beyond. Free SO2 is determined by the PH of the wine, and its ABV. This is why it's a good idea to know the PH of the wine so you can determine how much is needed in a wine for preservation. If you don't use it, you really run the risk of oxidation. It's also wise to know PH so you adjust it as needed in the pre-ferment. This will make your wines nicely balanced and you won't have acidic wines to deal with later on. Especially if you want to make fruit wines. A PH meter is a necessary tool.

I know you'll have lots of questions. Just feel free to ask away. Many people on this forum are glad to help you.

JohnT said:

I guess we both come off sounding like jerks!

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An awful affliction I have.

I figured I was off on the b-kappa and sulfur, but didn't think to go back and edit. The way I did my last batch (which is also my second batch) is right on the money for the oxygen, or very close. That batch has an alcohol bite as I swallow, a smell to it that makes most reluctant to taste it. Is a much thicker liquid than any wine I've ever had (which isn't making for much comparison) and has a very sweet and tasty flavor. I'm ok with it thick and hot, so I'm guessing more age will help the smell.

Since I plan to use a hydrometer this time, and so far, the rednecks I've shared the last batch with liked how strong it was, I'm curious what starting gravity is too high? I used 150% the sugar from the recipe my mother follows, and with my friends and family liking it so much, I'd like to keep it hot.

Thank everyone for the information, will make it easier to understand things when I try going back thru these threads an checking things out.

Oh, and ambient temperature-is that something to be concerned with? I had read another thread, beardy and his first batch, and he talked so much about the temperature. I'm making mine in my kitchen, central Texas heat, no ac. So it's always between 78° and 105° where I have my wine going. Doubt I will be able to do anything about it with this batch, but I want to make more. Lots more

The resulting ABV is only partially determined by the amount of sugar you add. Any strain of yeast has a limit as to how much alcohol (ABV) they can stand before they die from exposure to it. Look up the specs of the strain you want to use; it will tell you what the alcohol tolerance is.

So, you can add sugar 'till the cow comes home and when the yeast reach their alcohol limit, they simply die, leaving all that sugar behind and your wine sweet.

Something like port is generally higher in alcohol than the yeast could survive. Generally, ports are fortified with a high alcohol brandy to raise the ABV.

I am not sure what you are tasting when you say your wine tastes hot from alcohol. Alcohol is pretty much tasteless until it gets very high, 40% ABV or so. Until then, it actually can taste sweet, especially when the total acid of the wine is also high.

I would be concerned that what you are tasting might be some sort of acid.

Raising the level of alcohol will change the balance of the wine. In other words, it can screw up the balance, if acid adjustments are not made to compensate.

As to why your wine is thick, that is something I can't answer. Excess sugar can make it syrupy for sure, but I can't think of anything else that might.

So, try to limit ABV to 15% or even less. Many yeast strains won't go any higher, anyway. There is a lot more to get out of a nice wine than just a buzz.

I just went and tasted it again, to refresh myself on what I was trying to describe. Has been a few months since I have touched it, it's just over 2 years old now, but the smell is much better and the bite it had to the flavor isn't very noticeable. Color hasn't changed, still a very dark purple. I think syrupy from the sugar makes good sense, tho. If I look thru it towards the sunset, or hold a flashlight to it, I can see that it is clear-no cloudiness or floating particles, just very dark

Good.

Hopefully we can help you in your wine making endeavors of the future.

Yeah, temp is a concern. On reds, you usually don't want a temp over 80 degrees. For white wines and fruit wines, you usually want a cool ferment so you don't lose the volatiles in the wine that contribute to nose and flavor. Cool ferments are no more than about 72 degrees.

Without AC, it's pretty hard to do anything about your ambient temp. But what you might want to do is have a small chest freezer. Freeze your fruit and wait for cooler temps to do your ferments. You can freeze grapes too. And actually, frozen fruit is easier to work with because you get ALOT of juice going from the feezing peocess. Makes testing much easier and you don't have to use water and dilute your must. All of our wines, except for a few, are done with no water water additions. If you're making fruit wines, this is a good way to do it because you'll have excellent flavor without the water.