Yeast starter slurry question

Discussion in 'Skeeter Pee' started by M38A1, May 14, 2019 at 2:39 PM.

Wine Making Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk by donating:

  1. May 14, 2019 at 2:39 PM #1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    I've made my first batch of SkeeterPee named GSB for "Generic Summer Beverage" and it's a hit! Not having any yeast slurry from a prior batch, I just tossed some EC1118 at it and I have to say, the stuff really is good. I did a double batch for my first one and most is gone already. Boo. Time to make more!

    So about a week ago I started a peach wine using a Vintners Harvest 96oz peach juice can and three pounds of frozen peaches. That's now been sitting at .990 SG for it's third day (today). That means tonight I'll rack it off and continue the peach journey in it's own carboy leaving the yeast slurry/sediment.

    Do I have to do anything special with the yeast slurry/sdiment on the bottom of my peach batch in order to use it for the starter for my next batch of SkeeterPee I'll start in a couple days? Or do I just rack off the peach above the sediment, then pour the sediment into a clean/sanitized gallon jug and keep it in the fridge for a day until I can start my SkeeterPee with it?

    Anything special I need to do? Room temperature before I add it? Or just pour it in when it's time?

    Excited about this new adventure and looking for your expertise!

    Thx-
     
  2. May 14, 2019 at 3:46 PM #2

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs
    Certainly no expert when it comes to making skeeter pee but I cannot think why it would be necessary to refrigerate the "slurry" if you time your skeeter pee so that when you rack the peach wine off the lees you are ready to add the lemon must to the lees. This removes the problem of ensuring that the yeast is brought up to temperature so that it is up and running when the must is ready and it reduces the risks of contamination when you transfer the yeast from the carboy/fermenter to a smaller vessel that will sit in your fridge. But as I say, I am no expert when it comes to SP although I often simply treat the lees from one batch as the starter for another when I make te'j (an Ethiopian style mead)
     
    M38A1 likes this.
  3. May 15, 2019 at 1:49 AM #3

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Thank you!
    I'm mixing up the sugar/water/lemon juice and additives this evening so tomorrow I'll do my first rack out of PF on the peach and pour that slurry mix into my awaiting SkeeterPee PF. Brilliant!
     
  4. May 15, 2019 at 3:17 AM #4

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs
    Again, I don't claim to be an expert and this may make very little difference but my preference is always to pour the new batch onto the slurry rather than the slurry on to the new batch. When you pour the more dense must onto the lees you know that you are going to be distributing the lees effectively throughout the entire batch and you have not touched those lees with anything that could contaminate them. When you pour the lees as if this is a fresh pack of yeast then it is possible that the slurry will stay close to the surface for an extended period and it is possible that your mixing technique won't be great. The reason for using the "slurry" with SP is that you are using yeast that has been exposed to an acidic environment in which it has thrived (assuming your batch of peach wine has not stalled or indicated any problems with stress). The lemon environment is very acidic and if you are using Real Lemon it also contains some sorbate so you really want a very large and vigorous colony in your must. The slurry is like a huge starter.

    When you add dry yeast you need to allow the "powder" to rehydrate and absorb the liquid before you stir the yeast into the must. With lees the yeast cells are fully hydrated. So you can simply add the SP must to the carboy /fermenter.
     
    M38A1 likes this.
  5. May 15, 2019 at 2:22 PM #5

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Wow, makes sense to this newbie.... The two PF's are side by side now so tonight I'll yet again follow your guidance racking the peach off to a glass carboy, then dumping the lemon/water/sugar must into the peach PF where the peach lees reside. This is going to be fun!

    How many times can you use the lees for something like this? Are they replicating or is there only so much yeast from the original yeast packet?
     
  6. May 15, 2019 at 2:56 PM #6

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs
    Yeast bud and replicate and if you count the viable yeast cells you have in the lees and compare that number to the number of cells you pitched you will see that the colony has grown significantly. How many times can you use the lees? That's a good question. Here's the thing: the cells that are viable after fermenting a batch of wine are those that are best surviving the acid levels, the levels of alcohol , the ambient temperature, and other stresses you have created for them. That means for good or bad that the culture has adapted to the last batch you make and that means that if you are looking for specific characteristics of the strain you pitched originally those characteristics may have changed or been completely destroyed - or enhanced .. Brewers who harvest their yeast may use the same cells a handful of times but I think some commercial meaderies and breweries may use the same yeast for batch after batch after batch... Proof of the pudding is always in the eating. When your current batch does not have the characteristics you would have predicted it should have or if it has characteristics you don't prefer then it's time to thank the yeast and move on.
     
    scurry64, Chuck E and M38A1 like this.
  7. May 15, 2019 at 3:02 PM #7

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Again, thank you for the primer!

    This is all based on the assumption I'd know the difference of the characteristics let alone what those characteristics are!

    Again, thx. :)
     
  8. May 15, 2019 at 3:59 PM #8

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    BernardSmith

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,789
    Likes Received:
    1,004
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saratoga Springs
    It does .. but you selected a yeast. What was the reason for choosing a specific yeast to ferment that batch? And sure , you may have picked the yeast at random, but then that suggests you don't have in mind any characteristics that you wanted from the yeast . OK , but every strain of yeast enhances different colors or flavors or adds to mouthfeel (or not) - or masks aspects of flavor or works well in high stress/acidic environments or in high or low temperatures or flocculates well (or not) or works well with other strains of yeast or kills them to mitigate competition with them, or happily thrives in high alcohol environments or in high concentrations of sugar, etc. Some yeasts produce lots of fruity esters and some few. Some yeasts are high maintenance - producing lots of hydrogen sulfide while other strains are low maintenance. Some demand a high nutrient load , others require very little. For each strain there is a spec sheet published by the lab that cultures the yeast - And that's to say nothing about indigenous or wild yeasts that you can capture and cultivate from the fruit or flowers or honey you are fermenting.
     
    M38A1 likes this.
  9. May 15, 2019 at 4:20 PM #9

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Bernard,
    Thank you for the explanation. I selected Vintners Harvest MA33 for the Peach batch as the label said it tends to favor fruity country wines where residual sugar is desired. That's about all I understood so I went with it. My other is Lavlin EC1118 because it just works in huge variety of applications. (my Mustang grapes here are super-acidic) My 'take-away' is that I have to make several batches of the same recipe but using different yeast strains to see if I can even taste a difference. The simple fact that I can ferment something and get it drinkable is a huge win for me. That's where I'm at in my journey.

    Your reply above has now informed me of characteristics of what wines have to offer in simple terms I can understand. Thank you.
     
  10. May 16, 2019 at 3:14 PM #10

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    Wowzer, that was fun!

    Last night I racked peach off it's gross lees, did the k-meta/k-sorbate/sparkloid thing and put it under airlock. Then came the fun part - I poured my SkeeterPee mix directly into the bucket that had the peach gross lees and crossed my fingers the wine gods were going to be looking down favorably. Well this morning I pulled back the towel over it and the entire top was covered in a foam of bubbles! On first pass, I'd say this is going to work.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. May 20, 2019 at 1:06 PM #11

    M38A1

    M38A1

    M38A1

    Supporting Members WMT Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2018
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    44
    Gender:
    Male
    I've been thinking a bit about what Bernard said on the yeast strains and I'm forming an opinion that the MA13 really likes an acidic environment. I had used the MA13 on the peach mentioned above, then used that slurry as the starter for a SkeeterPee. The peach was fermented to dry in four days. My SP using that 'used' slurry fermented to dry in four days, lemon acid and all. Tonight I'll mix another batch of lemonade stock and tomorrow I'll rack off the newly fermented SP and toss in the lemonade stock. That should be interesting to see if it's again four days to ferment. That will be the third use of the yeast. And then a friend said "Hey! Grab a small Mason jar about half full of that yeast slurry - I want to try and use it in some bread making to see what happens". Mmmm, ok?
     

Share This Page