Yeast for Pinot Noir?

[jpsmithny]

Anyone have any recommendations for Pinot Noir yeast selection?

I just received a bucket from Wine Grapes Direct and am toying with the idea

of wild yeast fermentation. Pros or Cons? This will be my first try at a wild yeast fermentation so I am looking for any advice.

Hera re the numbers from the pail:

Brix=24.8, pH=3.9, TA=.55

 

[sour_grapes]

Have you looked at these guides?

http://www.lallemandwine.us/cellar/pinot_noir.php

http://morewinemaking.com/public/pdf/wyeastpair.pdf

I am a noob, so I cannot really comment knowledgeably on the advisability of a wild-yeast fermentation, but I personally cannot imagine any reason to think this is a good idea. What is the perceived benefit?

 

[JohnT]

I applaud your desire to experiment, but need to ask if you really want to do this.

Think of it this way. You have no control over the type of yeast that will be fermenting your wine. IMHO, it is much like tossing a wrench into a running engine with the hope that things will improve. There is a chance that the wrench will improve things, but a much greater chance that the wrench will only make things worse.

Let me ask you exactly why you want to do this? What benefits do you expect? Cultured yeasts started out as natural yeasts, but have been breeded for hundreds of years to make them favorable for wine. It is unlikely that you will catch a natural yeast that is better than that produced of the centuries (unless you live amongst wineries where the cultured yeast has gone native).

If you still are unconvinced, and still want to go forward with your experiment, then at least do not put a whole bucket of juice at risk. Why not just shave off a couple of liters for natural fermentation and add cultured yeast to the rest. This way you can compare the two.


As far as the cultured yeast to use, I would recommend RC-212. I have had great success with that.

 

[Boatboy24]

Are you planning on adjusting acid? I'm no seasoned veteran, but your pH seems high and TA low.

I'm almost ready to bottle my EP Pinot kit. It came with RC212 yeast.

 

[jpsmithny]

I applaud your desire to experiment, but need to ask if you really want to do this.

Think of it this way. You have no control over the type of yeast that will be fermenting your wine. IMHO, it is much like tossing a wrench into a running engine with the hope that things will improve. There is a chance that the wrench will improve things, but a much greater chance that the wrench will only make things worse.

Let me ask you exactly why you want to do this? What benefits do you expect? Cultured yeasts started out as natural yeasts, but have been breeded for hundreds of years to make them favorable for wine. It is unlikely that you will catch a natural yeast that is better than that produced of the centuries (unless you live amongst wineries where the cultured yeast has gone native).

If you still are unconvinced, and still want to go forward with your experiment, then at least do not put a whole bucket of juice at risk. Why not just shave off a couple of liters for natural fermentation and add cultured yeast to the rest. This way you can compare the two.


As far as the cultured yeast to use, I would recommend RC-212. I have had great success with that.

I wasn't planning on catching a wild yeast but utilizing the yeast present on the grapes from the vineyard.

I know it's old school but i'm told it adds complexity to the wine. I really have no idea myself;just looking for differing opinions.


I have all the yeast charts but someone who may have done this before might have some pointers.

It's just me putting feelers out. I haven't decided on my final plan yet.

 

[JohnT]

I wasn't planning on catching a wild yeast but utilizing the yeast present on the grapes from the vineyard.

I know it's old school but i'm told it adds complexity to the wine. I really have no idea myself;just looking for differing opinions.


I have all the yeast charts but someone who may have done this before might have some pointers.

It's just me putting feelers out. I haven't decided on my final plan yet.

Being as it may, it is still a gamble.

 

[Turock]

Last fall, there was a gal on here that joined the forum because her "mentors" were old school Italian winemakers and had her doing a wild culture ferment. She had SO many problems with it, and came here for some help. And she SWORE she would never do this again. One of her complaints was that all the wine these people made was STRONG and harsh. Believe me--the yeasts that we use were once ALL wild yeasts. They were taken and cultured, and reproduced for the pleasant characteristics that they possess.

Wild yeast fermentation is always risky. You may get some yeasts that have many off flavors. You don't know the alcohol tolerance of wild yeast, so your ferments can get stuck. And you never want a wild yeast to become a resident of your winery because you'll always have it trying to compete in your ferments. I've been making wine for 25 years and ONE thing I never want to deal with is a wild culture. New cultures, as they're discovered in the vineyards, are being isolated all the time. So leave it up to the Labs to give us the best cultures that they've found, which have good and interesting characteristics to them.

Also, Pinot Noir needs to have an MLF done to it after the primary ferment---no way do you want to screw this up with a wild ferment!! In my opinion, a Pinot Noir done in fruit style (no MLF) is harsh and strange tasting. The MLF--plus 2-3 years of bottle aging will make it very nice and smooth and the hidden flavors will come out. The flavor really hides on this grape--we bulk age for 1 year, then bottle and allow the bottles to age at least 1 more year before beginning to drink it. The 3rd year and beyond is even better.

 

[jpsmithny]

Turock,
Thank you. You've convinced me not to take the chance.

 

[Turock]

You will have better results with known cultures. We always use RC-212 on Pinot Noir, as Boatboy suggested. But there are other cultures you can explore such as Assmanshausen, BRL97, NT50, NT202, RA17 W15, WE372. ALWAYS read up on a culture before you decide on it because some of them have some special considerations for their useage. You said you wanted to have more complexity in this wine. Then read up on the W15 culture. All the cultures I mentioned are Scott Lab cultures.

 

[manvsvine]

If these grapes were frozen , you should innoculate .

Rc 212 is originally from burgundy , it's easy to get and works well with Pinot.

 

[JohnT]

Turock,

I could not have summed it up better myself!

 

[randomhero]

Last year I bought a bucket of PN from wine grapes direct. I used rc212 for the yeast and it has turned into a very very good wine so far.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Wine Making mobile app

 

[byathread]

I say go for the wild fermentation!!! But NOT on this Pinot.
Frozen must is not cheap. Try it on a small batch of cheap or free local grapes, when you've got little to lose.

 

[jpsmithny]

Wow,
Thanks everyone for the fantastic responses.
I did go with RC212 yeast on this. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

[JohnT]

Wow,
Thanks everyone for the fantastic responses.
I did go with RC212 yeast on this. I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Just do not forget to feed your yeasties!

 

[wildvines]

I used rc 212 on my Pinot noir eclipse and just racked to age and I am happy with it. I did tweak it. The aroma is great and taste was young but smooth and great mouthfeel.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[jpsmithny]

Just do not forget to feed your yeasties!

Are there certain nutrients that are better with some yeast strains?

And is it good practice to always add extra nutrients to the fermenter?

 

[manvsvine]

Complex nutrients like fermaid k work with all yeasts and varieties.

And yes it's a best practice to always use it.

1/2 gram per gallon at the first sign of a ferment and 1/2 g per gallon after the must drops 5 brix or by 1/3

Don't add any after the 1/2 way dry mark

 

[mainshipfred]

I looked through Scott Labs manual and these are their recommendations:
3001, Alchemy IV, AMH, BRG, BRL 79, NT 50, NT 202, RA 17, RC212 and W15. Some of these we can buy in smaller quantities. I'm still deciding which ones I'm going to use on my Pinot Noir.

 

[CDrew]

How about RP15? It’s a choice on Morewine’s yeast guide for Pinot Noir and is pretty tolerent of high alcohol fermentation. I have 80 gms left from last fall, I’m going to use this year in something. I’ve not used it but it’s reputation is that it isn’t fussy.

I’d also consider a Renaissance yeast so that H2S is a non-issue.

http://www.renaissanceyeast.com/en/products/brioso