Wine from de-ionized wine grape concentrate

[Werner]

Hi. I need some advice regarding this...
The Magnum kits are no longer available in RSA... and no other kits as well.
I managed to get some de-ionized concentrate from a winery but apparently its just like a grape syrup - no taste.
Any suggestions please...? Yeast is Lalvin DV 10.
Someone suggested white grape skins and stems during fermentation...??

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

Can you be a little more specific about what you are asking? How do you know that it has no taste? Have you fermented it yet? Are you seeking tips to enhance the flavor?

 

[Werner]

Thanks for the reply. I heard the de ionized concentrate is neutral in flavour...This ingredient is new to me...I am used to the normal 30 bottle kits with all the goodies to make a decent wine...so this will be something new - no finings etc...and yes, I am worried about the flavour...the advice about the grape skins and stems is a bit risky...Any advice will be appreciated.

 

[Werner]

The plan is to dilute the concentrate in the fermenter with water to about 22 litres and check for hydrometer reading of 1.070 - 1.080 adding sugar if necessary...then ad the skins and dry stems of 1.5kg white table grapes...then pitch the the DV 10 yeast...leave to finish fermentation...and then a lot of racking and maybe some Bentonite if I can get some...That's the plan...

 

[Rice_Guy]

The label indicates that the sugar is at about 3.5 times normal and the TA is normal for single strength grape juice. First and foremost the acids which are normally present in a grape juice are missing. You have tasted some and find it flat, I would add some acid blend and try it again to see if the flavor is back in spec. Likely normal flavor will be back if you add 2.5 times normal or 1.5 to 1.75 grams per liter of acid.

A guess is that this product is a "neutral flavor" grape concentrate which is intended to add some grape aroma while back sweetening/ chapitalizing must but not to add acids which would make it taste overly acidic like a northern hybrid grape. ,,, Legally in countries which do not permit the addition of cane sugar one can add grape concentrate and still be in the law. The deionization is probably with ultrafiltration which can selectively remove salts/ acid yet keep the sugar. Since there is some TA the process did not remove all the grape solids but lighter aroma molecules could also be short.
For a product which is in the sweetner market it should have no extracted tannins/ tannic flavor. As noted before you might want to add grape skins to the must.

and last of all welcome to WMT

I managed to get some de-ionized concentrate from a winery but apparently its just like a grape syrup - no taste. , , Any suggestions please...?

 

[Werner]

Thanks guys for the replies and advice....I am about to pitch the yeast....
I added the stems, skins and juice of the 1.5 kg white grapes as well as 200 ml of lemon juice...Hydrometer reading on the strong side...1.090
Lets see how this experiment plays out...Hopefully drinkable...
I will keep you updated on the progress...
Thanks again - from a stunning day in Jeffreys Bay...!

 

[Werner]

Hi all. Just an update...It's day 8 and fermenting well - airlock bubbles every 20 seconds constantly...
Fermentation temperature is 20 degrees Celsius. Plan is to wait for fermentation to slow down and then rack from the skins and stems...Any ideas / advice will be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Werner]

Hi all members. Trust you are well!
Update: Did the 2nd racking today when hydrometer showed .997 and still a bubble every 160 seconds...
Battled a bit with fermentation and had to add more yeast after 1st racking... the cold fronts here I presume...
Taste not to bad but I lost a couple of litres with 1st racking when racking off the skins etc...
Back blended with 3 litres of Sauvignon Blanc and 3 litres of Blanc de Blanc...Fermentation bucket is full now, air lock in place and hopefully no space for oxygen... Will let it sit now for about 2 to 3 months and then bottle...
Decided not to add any sulphites...trying the natural way...Hopefully drinkable Xmas time..!!

Thanks again for the advice and anymore suggestions will also be appreciated...

 

[stickman]

The wine should be in a carboy by now.

 

[Werner]

Hi Stickman...very scarce here...on my wish list though...

 

[Werner]

Hi all. Wished I had a carboy…not nice to not see what’s going on…!

Planning to leave it till mid October and then have a look and maybe rack into my other fermenter with the tap on - should make it easier for bottling in December. Just worried about the oxygen…

I will definitely invest in a carboy…even the glass 5 Lt one’s which I see you can get locally…

 

[Werner]

Hi all. I am in two minds…either leave the wine till October and see if it’s a success when bottling.

Or rack now to the fermenter with tap and sediment reducer…take a hydrometer test, a sip or two, de-gas to ensure to hopefully get a barrier to keep oxygen out again…and then leave with airlock on till mid Oct…

Any advice will be appreciated…

 

[Venatorscribe]

I think you should buy a few glass or food grade clear plastic carboys and rack now. But if you are not keen on that then leave for a couple more weeks. Rack then rack again before bottling. Don’t forget the k-meta - but as you are planning to consume over Xmas, maybe just half the normal dose. Drinking this early is adventurous, but why not. It’s your hobby, so do what you want to do because you want too. And - in that case try to get your wine into bottles in October - it at least gives the 'vino du Werner' a couple of months to recover and prepare itself for the party to follow. Cheers

 

[Werner]

Thanks Venatorscribe...Did rack today and was glad I did - lots of sediment...Did a hydrometer test and a tasting...
Manage to de-gas and airlock was active - hopefully enough to limit oxygen - oh..no SO2 or other preservatives locally available...
Taste is a bit heavy but fruity, dry aftertaste...Colour - better than I expected...
Will see if I can leave till mid Oct.

 

[Werner]

Hi All. Managed to bottle yesterday. Colour is good and taste not as heavy as previous tasting Alcohol content is 13.15% Again quite a bit of sediment but managed to get 26 bottles of clear wine...
Lets see how a month in the bottle will do...
Thanks again for all the advice...!

 

[Werner]

Hi All... Assumed all members had a fantastic festive season..!
Cheers...The project re the de-ionized concentrate worked out quite well...!!!
Opened a bottle today and well...well... very nice...!

 

[ChuckD]

Hi All... Assumed all members had a fantastic festive season..!
Cheers...The project re the de-ionized concentrate worked out quite well...!!!
Opened a bottle today and well...well... very nice...!

I’m glad your experiment turned out. I’m curious, how much acid did you add back or was it just the lemon juice? Did you ever measure the pH or total acid?

I hope you can save a few bottles and let them age for several months… maybe out to a year to see how it changes.

 

[ChuckD]

I had no idea where Jeffries Bay was so I Googled it. Looks like a beautiful place. What’s your next project wine?

 

[Werner]

I’m glad your experiment turned out. I’m curious, how much acid did you add back or was it just the lemon juice? Did you ever measure the pH or total acid?

I hope you can save a few bottles and let them age for several months… maybe out to a year to see how it changes.

Hi ChuckD - Just the lemon juice...did not measure anything else...I gave away most...for early consumption...ha.ha..remember...no preservatives....still believe its a good deal regarding price of the concentrate. About $ 12.00 for the 5lt concentrate locally...but will try a straight Shiraz wine coming March when its harvesting time here...A friend has a 1000 m² vineyard down the the road from me...Grenache and Shiraz... Will see if I can source some Shiraz for a batch...
Yes...J Bay is an awesome place to live..I have been telling my kids...they are growing up in a bubble....just keep in mind ..Africa is a tough country..!!!
In my collection from the US...2 X Hopland Ranches wines...apparently changed ownership...???
probably not consumable by ya...nice to have....pic incl